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UPG
Oct 9, 2009 8:46:39 GMT -1
Post by Rion on Oct 9, 2009 8:46:39 GMT -1
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get stuck in and ask questions, etc. but you all know how it is when you're a student, I'm sure.
I've decided to start with what seems to be quite a practical question. A couple of you have referred to 'UPG' a few times in the forums. What is it, and how do you arrive at it?
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UPG
Oct 9, 2009 9:34:09 GMT -1
Post by potia on Oct 9, 2009 9:34:09 GMT -1
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UPG
Oct 9, 2009 9:54:42 GMT -1
Post by Tegernacus on Oct 9, 2009 9:54:42 GMT -1
intuition. You know something is right, but can't exactly explain it or prove it. It just is.
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UPG
Oct 9, 2009 13:19:02 GMT -1
Post by Rion on Oct 9, 2009 13:19:02 GMT -1
Many thanks for your answers, you addressed both the scholarly and the intuitive aspects of the question.
I suppose my next one would be: how does one connect with the Gods?
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UPG
Oct 9, 2009 14:43:22 GMT -1
Post by potia on Oct 9, 2009 14:43:22 GMT -1
I suppose my next one would be: how does one connect with the Gods? The answers to that vary a great deal from person to person. We all have different ways of building relationships with our gods. Some will connect via mediation, others through time spent in particular environments, some via ritual work. There is no one simple answer to that question.
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UPG
Oct 10, 2009 8:53:05 GMT -1
Post by Rion on Oct 10, 2009 8:53:05 GMT -1
Thank you Potia, your answers are always thoughtful and well-considered.
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UPG
Oct 11, 2009 18:25:54 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Oct 11, 2009 18:25:54 GMT -1
I find a altar with a god iconography help. Prayers and ritual to a particular god. Start off simple and let it build up naturally. Don't put pressure of yourself for a god to communicate to you it will happen when it suppose to.( if it happens at all)
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UPG
Oct 11, 2009 23:05:24 GMT -1
Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 23:05:24 GMT -1
I find often when I've been 'immersed in them' for a long period of time, either after studying their lore or around natural forces associated with them (such as horses or fire or rivers, depending on the god) or through purposely paying attention to iconography like arth_frown said, that there will be a sudden feeling of deepening awareness, as though something just clicked and made sense. Not necessarily a communication in the every day sense of having a chat with someone, but just a deepening sense of that god. Sometimes that has been associated with places when I've been back in Britain, sometimes it's been around a natural force here, other times it seems to arise out of my own physical being through the ancestral connection. I think Potia is certainly right that it happens differently for everyone, and sometimes even every time it happens too. I would also add that I think these things happen in stages and that at first contact may be as simple as an unaccountable interest in a particular symbol that you find yourself fascinated, whereas over time that sensation can deepen into some quite intense experiences. Most people I think miss the initial experiences though and tend to write them off as not valid because they are too subtle. I tend to believe that if you find yourself drawn even to studying and paying attention to a particular god that jumps out at you then you are already in the early stages of 'making contact.'
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 5:33:26 GMT -1
Post by Rion on Oct 12, 2009 5:33:26 GMT -1
Thank you for you answers, they're very helpful. So if I understand correctly, your approach is to learn about the Gods, and pay attention to subtle hints pointing you in a particular direction, and then to focus on iconography (including associations) and lore pertaining to them.
It certainly does seem to me that the God or Goddess in question should choose you, not the other way around. I certainly wouldn't be arrogant enough to just 'pick a God' from some celestial pick'n'mix of divinity.
I read somewhere (don't press me on where, and feel free to shoot me down if it's nonsense) that it's easier to make a connection with one's ancestors, as they are closer to us on a cosmic scale, and may be inclined to introduce us to divinity themselves (presumably by dropping hints, much like you described above, Annua). How much would you agree with this?
Also, it's mentioned on here that we should honour our ancestors, how does one go about doing that in the Brythonic tradition?
Sorry if my questions seem stupid or basic, I'm fairly new to this!
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 6:54:33 GMT -1
Post by megli on Oct 12, 2009 6:54:33 GMT -1
So are we!
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 8:16:12 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Oct 12, 2009 8:16:12 GMT -1
It certainly does seem to me that the God or Goddess in question should choose you, not the other way around. I certainly wouldn't be arrogant enough to just 'pick a God' from some celestial pick'n'mix of divinity. IMHO if you are going to pick a god then they would suit your life style. For example there is no point in picking a god of milking if you don't milk cows. I make things from wood so Lugos the god of many crafts would suit me, but there may be some who follow him for other reasons.. I've simplified it because there are no hard and fast rules.Some gods pick you. No need to apologise as there is no stupid questions.
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 8:16:56 GMT -1
Post by potia on Oct 12, 2009 8:16:56 GMT -1
Also, it's mentioned on here that we should honour our ancestors, how does one go about doing that in the Brythonic tradition? Sorry if my questions seem stupid or basic, I'm fairly new to this! Don't apologise for asking questions - ever Sometimes it is in trying to answer the so called simple and basic questions (which usually aren't that simple) that we are able to clarify some of our own thoughts and so we learn as much by trying to answer as you do by asking. Again honouring the ancestors is something each of us will do in different ways. As an example I have developed a simple ritual which I carry out every full moon now to help me honour my ancestors. I make a pot of tea with loose leaf tea (as opposed to a quick mug with a teabag). While making the tea I think about my ancestors starting with the most recent and moving on to individuals I know only by name and then back to those I know nothing of. When the tea is brewed I pour a cup for my ancestos and place it by photos of those in my family that have died more recently and I pour a cup for myself. While I drink my tea I continue to think about my own ancestors. Much later when the tea by the photos has gone cold I take that cup and pour it out on the earth. This helps me to connect with my ancestors, to remember them and to honour what I know of them.
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 8:48:59 GMT -1
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 8:48:59 GMT -1
I have a tri-part photo frame with my late grandmother, great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother on it (sort of matronae inspired) that I put offerings out to regularly. Sometimes including rolling a cigarette for my grandma and letting it burn out there. I do this similar to Potia in that I work my way back, acknowledging an unbroken thread of being that goes right back and currently manifests in me and my children. At nos calan gaeaf we have a temporary rather large 'wall of the dead' that consists of a large amount of my ancestors and my husbands photographs. I think starting with the dead with whom we have a personal connection really opens up that channel to the deep past. Especially as my dead are all back home in British soil and I am away. For me personally everything did start with connection with ancestors. In fact often that 'regressive meditation' on my ancestors has led me to an unexpected awareness of a particular god. I guess I've always thought that they are the natural bridge, I mean they are the gods of our ancestors after-all and I guess to feel they are part of us we must first consider that we're part of our ancestors. I also think that's very pertinent what arth_frown said about life-style. I see the fact that I live somewhere cold and keep a literal hearth-fire which is what I rely on for heating as an important part of my relationship with Brigantia, and that the gods that come to the fore for us have changed since we moved to a rural setting. When I lived on the mainland in Australia where heat and light were not pleasant and comforting things but something more like to kill you if you stayed out in it too long she was less important in our lives than today.
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 8:52:59 GMT -1
Post by Rion on Oct 12, 2009 8:52:59 GMT -1
Thank you Potia, that was really helpful. It's really useful to know what kind of rituals you use. I'm sorry if this is too private but are there any words you tend to say, or is it mainly internal? Arth, your suggestion makes sense actually. Is there a particular deity who is associated with study? I am a post-grad student of history, and could do with a little push every now and then Megli: Ha! I've read your posts, false modesty doesn't become you
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 9:29:12 GMT -1
Post by potia on Oct 12, 2009 9:29:12 GMT -1
Thank you Potia, that was really helpful. It's really useful to know what kind of rituals you use. I'm sorry if this is too private but are there any words you tend to say, or is it mainly internal? I don't tend to use any particular words, it's mostly internal and focussed on personal memories. Sometimes I mentally say things but these tend to be the sort of things I'd say if they were in the same room.
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 9:34:30 GMT -1
Post by Adam on Oct 12, 2009 9:34:30 GMT -1
I read somewhere (don't press me on where, and feel free to shoot me down if it's nonsense) that it's easier to make a connection with one's ancestors, as they are closer to us on a cosmic scale, and may be inclined to introduce us to divinity themselves (presumably by dropping hints, much like you described above, Annua). How much would you agree with this? That personally fits with my experience... I'm not over-filled with experience of deity, though my ancestors are a permanent presence one way or another
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 10:39:19 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Oct 12, 2009 10:39:19 GMT -1
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 10:45:34 GMT -1
Post by Rion on Oct 12, 2009 10:45:34 GMT -1
Thanks guys, this is really helpful!
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UPG
Oct 12, 2009 14:06:52 GMT -1
Post by Lee on Oct 12, 2009 14:06:52 GMT -1
i think Annua covered this one in her post above, but simply reading up and researching on the gods can be a help.
whilst it is common in modern pagan circles to sugest that you dont chose the gods, they chose you. that isnt always the case; it is perfectly possible that something develops because you initiated it.
i tend to find that if i am reading up, looking inot literature and archaeology surroudning a particulr deity then 'things' start happening around me and i just 'know' it is some sort of sign. call it gut instinct. birds tend to feature heavily in these omens as do childrens toys 9long series of storie)
so i would suggest if there is a deity to whom you are attracted, go out there and so some reading, see what you can find and mull it over, daydream about the information and let it play about on your mind - see what comes of that and see if you get anything.
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