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Post by dreamguardian on Aug 11, 2009 20:07:48 GMT -1
This may end up as a series of posts.
Recently I have had someone on a mentoring program at work. I had been warned not to swear and be sensititive to their spiritual sensabiiities. Hmm ... Anyway, I continued to speak as I always have done ;D but never mentioned religion. It was brought up by the other party on several occassions which is probably due to the nature of my profession that can sometimes cause this kinda reaction. Or maybe not.
The person in question was a sincere creationist (Not met one for a while) & a commited Christian. The question was asked 'What do I believe?'. As usual in these circumstances, it continued to be more of why don't I believe in Christianity than what I actually believe.
When mentioning my Polytheism, I was told that I was invoking & worshiping Demons! But what is more relevant was the theological question:
'Do you believe in absolute truth?'
I'd be interested in other peoples responses to this question.
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Post by Tegernacus on Aug 11, 2009 20:15:38 GMT -1
my response would be "which absolute truth would that be then?"
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Post by dreamguardian on Aug 11, 2009 20:18:27 GMT -1
my response would be "which absolute truth would that be then?" That was my response & why I cannot subscribe to monotheism.
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Post by Tegernacus on Aug 11, 2009 20:22:28 GMT -1
It was a loaded question. What he meant was "do you believe that the Bible is the word of God, absolutely, without question". I doubt even the Pope believes that.
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Post by Adam on Aug 11, 2009 21:18:34 GMT -1
'Do you believe in absolute truth?' I'd be interested in other peoples responses to this question. I suspect it :-) But I also suspect that human understanding is no more capable of its cognizance than ant understanding I suspect that our "true" role is to partake of it rather than understand it There's a greek word for the concept that we can only ever know nothing, because our capacity for knowledge and understanding is finite, and there will always be an infinite amount left that we do not know and understand. Can't remember what it is though... I only ever want to use it once every few years, by which time I've always forgotten ;D
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Post by potia on Aug 12, 2009 7:37:01 GMT -1
I don't believe in absolute truth or absolute good or absolute evil as it happens. To me these are all concepts that simplify the mucky reality of our world and lives.
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Post by megli on Aug 12, 2009 7:56:26 GMT -1
I cd subscribe personally to some of the tenets of Buddhism as absolute truth. All things are impermanent; all things are mutally intercompounded and empty of intrinsic self.
I was watching a storm the other day, and saw this huge thunder and lightning show going on: rain fell into my tea, and I drank it. I realised that the storm was made up of rain and charged particles and cloud and electric discharges; and now some of the rain was inside me. Both I and the storm were mutally intercompounded and intriniscally empty of separate selfhood.
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Post by megli on Aug 12, 2009 7:57:20 GMT -1
There's a greek word for the concept that we can only ever know nothing, because our capacity for knowledge and understanding is finite, and there will always be an infinite amount left that we do not know and understand. Can't remember what it is though... I only ever want to use it once every few years, by which time I've always forgotten ;D apophasis? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_theology
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Post by littleraven on Aug 12, 2009 8:31:32 GMT -1
Absolute Truth exists however we may as individuals may describe it, it is our *perception* and attempts to describe such absolute truths that cause the problems.
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Post by Adam on Aug 12, 2009 10:07:52 GMT -1
There's a greek word for the concept that we can only ever know nothing, because our capacity for knowledge and understanding is finite, and there will always be an infinite amount left that we do not know and understand. Can't remember what it is though... I only ever want to use it once every few years, by which time I've always forgotten ;D apophasis? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_theologyI'm not sure... it didn't make me go "aha" when I read it and the description doesn't fit though is close in some respects. IIRC it related in some way to a form of Gnosticism that took the philosophical position that man can know only an infinitesimally small (tending to zero) amount, since there are always limitations to our knowledge and that which we are ignorant of remains infinite. Wasn't so much a way of describing through "what a thing is not" as a philosophical position on the limits of our capacity for knowledge and thus a statement that we *cannot* know God, whose nature is limitless. Bugger... I'm going to have to find it now. Edit: might have been as simple as agnosia, though that seems to refer to a state rather than a philospohical position
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Post by arth_frown on Aug 12, 2009 10:42:13 GMT -1
Absolute Truth exists however we may as individuals may describe it, it is our *perception* and attempts to describe such absolute truths that cause the problems. Beat me to it. I was going to say it how we perceive it. What does make me worry is that DG has to tread on egg shells around such person but can be told that it worships demons. Doesn't sound like a level playing field. Sounds like whoever shouts the loudest wins.
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Post by littleraven on Aug 12, 2009 10:46:39 GMT -1
What does make me worry is that DG has to tread on egg shells around such person but can be told that it worships demons. Doesn't sound like a level playing field. Sounds like whoever shouts the loudest wins. Absolutely, things like that are undoubtedly an example of a double standard. DG, could you make a complaint that this person has effectively created a 'defamation of character' on you, by publically claiming you worship demons, because of the negativity attached to that?
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Post by Heron on Aug 12, 2009 13:50:41 GMT -1
I cd subscribe personally to some of the tenets of Buddhism as absolute truth. All things are impermanent; all things are mutally intercompounded and empty of intrinsic self. I was watching a storm the other day, and saw this huge thunder and lightning show going on: rain fell into my tea, and I drank it. I realised that the storm was made up of rain and charged particles and cloud and electric discharges; and now some of the rain was inside me. Both I and the storm were mutally intercompounded and intriniscally empty of separate selfhood. Truth doesn't get more absolute than that!
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Post by redraven on Aug 12, 2009 17:03:47 GMT -1
Absolute, in this particular context, by implication, suggests the creation of boundaries, whether physical or psychological, with no process or mechanism for exceptions. It has been my experience that there is no such phenomena, or maybe I have been unlucky enough not to be party to such a thing?!! Therefore, my experience directs me to conclude that "absolute" is another failed human construct.
RR
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Post by dreamguardian on Aug 12, 2009 17:36:28 GMT -1
What does make me worry is that DG has to tread on egg shells around such person but can be told that it worships demons. Doesn't sound like a level playing field. Sounds like whoever shouts the loudest wins. Absolutely, things like that are undoubtedly an example of a double standard. DG, could you make a complaint that this person has effectively created a 'defamation of character' on you, by publically claiming you worship demons, because of the negativity attached to that? This South London Boy has no idea how to tread on egg shells ;D I swear pretty good in Welsh now too. So don't worry about that but I avoided 'religion' through knowing where it would lead & not for fear of upsetting anyone. I won't be putting in any complaints as I'm happy that my beliefs are in the shadows. Some colleagues know & thats the way I want it. I don't really want to draw attention to those above me. I had a good debate about my demons & a good deconstruct of the bible. Be aware that I'm not anti Christian & respect their faith. Each to their own but if my beliefs are attacked, I'm gonna defend them. And I f**king did
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Post by dreamguardian on Aug 12, 2009 17:39:21 GMT -1
Absolute Truth exists however we may as individuals may describe it, it is our *perception* and attempts to describe such absolute truths that cause the problems. Definately
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Post by Midori on Aug 15, 2009 11:41:14 GMT -1
Absolute Truth for me would not be the same as yours, because we cannot see, hear, smell taste and touch through the one set of senses, but each through his or her equivalent ones. I don't believe any one person perceives the world in exactly the same way as another.
Cheers, Midori
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Post by redraven on Aug 15, 2009 18:35:13 GMT -1
Absolute Truth for me would not be the same as yours, because we cannot see, hear, smell taste and touch through the one set of senses, but each through his or her equivalent ones. I don't believe any one person perceives the world in exactly the same way as another. Cheers, Midori Quite right, so the shared experiences can never be "exactly" the same. Therefore, I would suggest that "absolute", as a concept, cannot cater for all eventualities, although it could cater for most. RR
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Post by Adam on Aug 16, 2009 14:53:06 GMT -1
Absolute Truth for me would not be the same as yours, because we cannot see, hear, smell taste and touch through the one set of senses, but each through his or her equivalent ones. I don't believe any one person perceives the world in exactly the same way as another. Cheers, Midori Then is that not Relative Truth? I'm not sure that we can talk of "my" absolute truth and "your" absolute truth in any meaningful way. As I understand the term absolute in relation to truth, it suggests an objective, external truth which may or may not be accessible to mortal awareness (and I believe not, in it's entirety). Something that remains true irrespective of my existence or my awareness of said truth? In that sense, I guess I am talking about an objective, external reality that is not dependent on my perspective in order to be "real". I suspect/believe such a thing exists and suggest that I can never truly know it. Adam (who believes such conversations always work much better face to face and over a glass or two of something or other ;-) )
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