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Epona
Jan 5, 2011 18:39:50 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Jan 5, 2011 18:39:50 GMT -1
Epona is also sometimes shown with a dog, which I've read somewhere (sorry for being terrible at quoting sources :S) were once a symbol of fertility as the whelping bitch. As She is often assumed to be shown with foals as well does this mean that She was a diety of birthing? A protector during or after birthing? If so was this role limited to Her animals rather than people? Is there anything that would support something along these lines?
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Epona
Jan 5, 2011 20:05:11 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Jan 5, 2011 20:05:11 GMT -1
maybe she has something to do with hunting? i.e horse and hound.
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Epona
Jan 5, 2011 20:56:30 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Jan 5, 2011 20:56:30 GMT -1
The hound - yes that would make perfect sense wouldn't it. Why had that not occurred to me, it seems obvious now that you've said it I had read the reference to dogs being equated with fertility in ancient times while I was trying to research Hekate so maybe this was a mainland European understanding? I wish I could remember where I read this!! Would the iron-age clans of Britain have seen dogs as a fertility symbol? Dogs in connection to the hunt certainly 'feels' more suited to Britain than the idea of fertility. Hmmm... But the depiction of Epona with foals - various sites describe Her as sitting with foals and the images certainly do look like foals instead of ponies. Unless they're Shetland type ponies I suppose? Why specifically foals and not horses?
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Epona
Jan 5, 2011 21:06:27 GMT -1
Post by megli on Jan 5, 2011 21:06:27 GMT -1
Before we leap to doggy conclusions, why cd they not be a symbol of faithfulness?...Or travel? (cf a germano-Celtic figure like Nehalennia, who is a north sea trade figure, also always accompanied by a dog)... or of the Underworld?....or of protection??
Bit of a poser, really...!
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Epona
Jan 5, 2011 22:35:25 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Jan 5, 2011 22:35:25 GMT -1
Before we leap to doggy conclusions, why cd they not be a symbol of faithfulness?...Or travel? (cf a germano-Celtic figure like Nehalennia, who is a north sea trade figure, also always accompanied by a dog)... or of the Underworld?....or of protection?? Bit of a poser, really...! Nehalennia is also shown with Apples and bread. Horses and dogs could be faithfulness, man's two best friends. Could be war related? Roman cavalry adopted Epona.
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Epona
Jan 6, 2011 11:31:37 GMT -1
Post by potia on Jan 6, 2011 11:31:37 GMT -1
As Epona has been depicted with both foals and a cornucopia in some images in Europe (see: epona.net/depictions.html) I think it's pretty safe to say that she has some connection with fertility. Whether the dogs are part of that or not I'm not so sure. My own UPG links wolfhounds to Epona with strong overtones of protection and guidance.
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Epona
Jan 6, 2011 16:39:53 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Jan 6, 2011 16:39:53 GMT -1
On epona.net there is a list of other dieties associated with Epona, and there are quite a few inscriptions in which She appears alongside other deities associated with travel, so maybe this backs up the thought that the accompanying dog is a sign of travel.
... and I have heard other people question if She has any warlike associations. The Irish horse-goddesses are linked to war but it's my understanding that it's unlikely the Irish horse-goddesses are linked to Epona in any way?
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Epona
Jan 6, 2011 17:12:40 GMT -1
Post by potia on Jan 6, 2011 17:12:40 GMT -1
Given that she was venerated by Roman cavalry I think we can be pretty sure that there were some warlike associations but to what extent is a bit of a mystery.
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Epona
Jan 6, 2011 18:38:52 GMT -1
Post by Lee on Jan 6, 2011 18:38:52 GMT -1
dogs crop up as offerings at the healing temple at Lydney (associated with nodens) so could also represent healing. just as another option to put on the table
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Epona
Jan 6, 2011 19:26:00 GMT -1
Post by deiniol on Jan 6, 2011 19:26:00 GMT -1
nellie, I'm aware that you're aware (as it were) of Ceisiwr Serith's work. His page on PIE deities might be worth re-examining with regard to Epona (scroll down to "Hekwona"). Also, with regard to Epona and dogs, it is perhaps worth remembering that Rhiannon's serving-women smeared her face (IIRC) with the blood of puppies to make it look like she'd killed her own son. Another connection to add to the list.
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Epona
Jan 6, 2011 20:06:09 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Jan 6, 2011 20:06:09 GMT -1
Also, with regard to Epona and dogs, it is perhaps worth remembering that Rhiannon's serving-women smeared her face (IIRC) with the blood of puppies to make it look like she'd killed her own son. Another connection to add to the list. I was thinking that it may be connected to mythological context.
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Epona
Jan 7, 2011 6:19:48 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Jan 7, 2011 6:19:48 GMT -1
I'm not sure Epona's veneration within the Roman cavalry does point to a war like nature though. She wasn't worshipped throughout the whole of the roman army, just the unit where horses were important. Isn't it more indicative of Her love of her horses than it is of war? Deiniol thanks for pointing me back towards Ceisiwr's page as I don't remember having looked at it before. It's interesting reading (I don't really get the rape links though). I'd also forgotten the puppies in Rhiannon's story! So Her son was swapped for both puppies and a horse. hmmm...
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Epona
Jan 7, 2011 9:34:31 GMT -1
Post by potia on Jan 7, 2011 9:34:31 GMT -1
I wouldn't say a warlike nature as such but a strong, independant one and one that can be very protective. And when you are protective of someone or something that can mean you are perfectly willing to fight for it with every trick you know
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Epona
Jan 7, 2011 9:59:37 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Jan 7, 2011 9:59:37 GMT -1
Agreed Potia.
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Epona
Apr 3, 2011 14:25:32 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Apr 3, 2011 14:25:32 GMT -1
I'm still working on putting together my personal devotions (Still!!) and I've been thinking about when is most appropriate to make an offering to Rhiannon during the month (as opposed to daily practises). I was inclined toward the dark moon to make my offerings to begin with as to me She feels mysterious, and deep and very dark moon-ish. But I also assosiate Her very much with May and the hawthorns blooming, which is bright and sunny. So I'm confused.
Any thoughts on the most appropriate time to honour Rhiannon?
As another point in connection to this, is the offering itself. It seems wrong to offer roses when they're not in bloom, and rose hips would then seem more appropriate, but does anybody have any thoughts on offerings when there are neither of those things seasonally? Rose incense maybe, but anything else?
I always feel there are two quite distinct sides of Rhiannon, one light and one noticably darker. Does any body else have this experience? Is it part of a seasonal shift maybe?
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Epona
Apr 3, 2011 19:02:06 GMT -1
Post by potia on Apr 3, 2011 19:02:06 GMT -1
A few of us honour her at the full moon. I usually offer a sweet wine of some sort and sing my hymn to her. Sometimes the wine is mead, sometimes a fruit wine like strawberry wine. I also usually burn a single candle for her for as much of the evening as I can. I've just brought some rose tea lights from Morrisons and I might try burning one of those this coming moon. Dark moon is a time a few of us reserve for honouring and communing with the ancestors. that's not to say we don't at other times as well btw
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Epona
Apr 3, 2011 20:45:05 GMT -1
Post by Lee on Apr 3, 2011 20:45:05 GMT -1
Nellie - if you want to offer roses as much as possible (or rise hips in later months) that sounds fine. if they arent around or you cant get your hands on them, other things can be offered too; as Potia says wine, bread, cake... go with your gut feeling.
i do my observations at the full moon - it feels more 'right'; large, bright white object dominating the sky i much the same way as large white chalklands which i am beginning to associate with her.
whist i agree she has darker sides to her, it just doesnt feel right to me to do something for her at the new moon. but you should go with what feels right for you.
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Epona
Apr 3, 2011 21:56:59 GMT -1
Post by Heron on Apr 3, 2011 21:56:59 GMT -1
I'm still working on putting together my personal devotions (Still!!) and I've been thinking about when is most appropriate to make an offering to Rhiannon during the month (as opposed to daily practises). I was inclined toward the dark moon to make my offerings to begin with as to me She feels mysterious, and deep and very dark moon-ish. But I also assosiate Her very much with May and the hawthorns blooming, which is bright and sunny. So I'm confused. Any thoughts on the most appropriate time to honour Rhiannon? As another point in connection to this, is the offering itself. It seems wrong to offer roses when they're not in bloom, and rose hips would then seem more appropriate, but does anybody have any thoughts on offerings when there are neither of those things seasonally? Rose incense maybe, but anything else? I always feel there are two quite distinct sides of Rhiannon, one light and one noticably darker. Does any body else have this experience? Is it part of a seasonal shift maybe? Very much my own feelings. I tend to think that one side of Rhiannon is the young woman who comes riding out of Annwn to get herself a husband in the First Branch of Y Mabinogi. And this I associate with May. The other side I tend to see in the older woman who retreats to Annwn in the Third Branch when the Enchantment is on Dyfed. I associate this with the coming of Winter. She is, in this story, a captive until Manawydan releases her and lifts the Enchantment. I offer roses to her at my altar when they are in bloom using the words I put on here a while back. I've also used dried rose petals and essential oil of Roses, but only very sparingly in the Winter season when I sometimes meditate on her absence and that scene in the story where she is spirited away in the enchanted fort and held in an asses collar.
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Epona
Apr 4, 2011 11:03:56 GMT -1
Post by potia on Apr 4, 2011 11:03:56 GMT -1
I always feel there are two quite distinct sides of Rhiannon, one light and one noticably darker. Does any body else have this experience? Is it part of a seasonal shift maybe? This isn't something I've had experience of. That's not to say I haven't experienced different facets of her personality but to me it's not so much different sides to her as just part of a complex personality.
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