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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 9:22:16 GMT -1
Just wondered if anyone could contribute anything on a topic of some interest to me. As someone on new soil I want to find out as much about how our ancestors went about moving to and settling new places to learn from their example. I wonder if anyone could point me towards any lore or historical information on this topic that I may not be aware of? So far the closest sources of wisdom on this topic I can come up with is the legend of the settlement of Ireland and the necessity to keep the name of the local goddesses as the name of the location. Also I see that the Romans seemed to be fond of a fusion approach in the Sulis-Minerva style of things. Here in Tasmania fusion of this sort is not exactly practiceable for me because the indigenous population are no longer extant and neither is much of their lore about the land and it's dreaming. What is left does not usually present clear parallels for me of that Sulis-Minerva type, as we are talking about a hunter gatherer population who didn't own horses or partake of many of our cultural forms. Thus no goddess of horses, and yet horses run here, no god of smithing or craftsmanship, and yet such things occur here. I find myself confronted by mountains and rivers with no mythology and I find myself having experiences (surrounded by the horses and oaks trees etc that we brought with us) of gods that appear to me in my own ancestrally expected forms. Just to give people the background on this question...
Does anyone have any archeological or historical or linguistic or any kind of knowledge to contribute about how our ancestors might have approached settlement of new land?
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Post by Lee on Oct 12, 2009 10:47:26 GMT -1
American Gods by Neil Gaiman
really, it is amazing.
a more direct answer though, is that i should think that people take thier gods with them. they move to new landscapes and new vistas and they bring the gods they know with them. they might meet other people there who have gods of thier won and depending on how political situations pan out then then either one grouop of gods takes over and the other disappears inot the shadows OR they merge inot each other. so you have gods from either pantheon popping up in the other or amagamations occurring - the Romans being the conisseurs of the latter.
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Post by littleraven on Oct 12, 2009 10:54:15 GMT -1
Don't think of the Sulis Minerva type thing as a fusion, it's a comparison. You could flesh it out as '"Their Sulis, who is similar to our Minerva".
As for Gods that travel, it's really a failry easy thing to get your head around. Sky gods travel because the sky remains pretty much the same wherever you are. But you know that if you've just spent a week traveling that river or stream is not the same as the one by the hillfort you came from. Same with Gods such as Lugos, human skills travel with the people, they are not tied to a location.
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 12, 2009 11:28:54 GMT -1
there are different definitions of "gods": those of ancestors, those of the tribe/people, those of place. The first two can go with you on your migrations (re: the Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Romans, Modern Americans, Austrialians - was that Christian church already there? No, they took it with them).
Spirits/gods of place are a bit more tricky, being tied to location. Obviously you can't really interact with the Goddess of the Thames, as she's in a different country. But I bet there is a river/stream/pool near you somewhere... go introduce yourself!
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Post by Rion on Oct 12, 2009 12:56:25 GMT -1
I'm currently studying abroad in Israel. Given the history of this land I'm not sure how well the spirits/gods of the place will react to someone starting a Brythonic path.
What do you think my approach should be?
p.s. sorry for diverting the thread of the conversation a bit ^^
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 20:30:44 GMT -1
I don't think it's a divergence at all, it is similar to my original question. I mean the people here were actually wiped out by Europeans partially through conflict partially through germs, so I did wonder about how the land will react to my practices. The response has been overwhelmingly positive when I've introduced myself to the springs, rivers and mountains here. Thank you for your answers people, what you've said seems to make a lot of sense in relation to what I've experienced. Certain gods still seem accessible to me but it is the spirits of place here with whom I am developing a relationship and theh goddess of the Thames is indeed a little distant! 'Fusion' the wrong word to apply to gods, but I guess I just want some insight into how that cultural interaction has played out for past people who travelled with their gods. Thank you for the book recommendation Lee, I will look into that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 0:13:12 GMT -1
While working at Stonehenge an Aboriginal woman approached me with an artifact that her mother wanted buried there. It was a healing stone and when she showed it to me I realed back from the energies. It was decorated in Aboriginal art and luckily the manager on that day was more than just a mere human. After guiding her up to the stones and instructing her on the ways of the northern hemisphere I left her. She returned later wanting her mother to come over and bury it herself. Embrace the energies of where you are. Don't try to instill the Gods of your past. You may be an alien to the culture but feel it in your own way. I would feel the same in the Welsh mountains. It is not my natural home. Blessed be.
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Post by Tegernacus on Feb 23, 2010 8:49:35 GMT -1
wait, people are burying stuff at Stonehenge? what happened to the "take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints" mantra?
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Post by Lee on Feb 23, 2010 9:17:33 GMT -1
im deeply surprised an Aboriginal woman would be burying things at stonehenge - i would think they had their own places and means to do this back in Australia.
how very odd.
of course, she should have been told it isnt appropriate to bury stuff - after all, im sure westereners arent supposed to take bits of Ularoo (sp way off there)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 9:47:34 GMT -1
After many of the open access times at the stones, especially the summer solstice, it is not only litter that has to be cleared but also unauthorised scattering of ashes. English Heritcs, sorry, Heritage allow scattering on a nearby mound. Last year ancient cremations were removed by archeologists and are now in the possession of the British Museum. Arthur Pendragon and others are campaigning for their return.
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Post by Lee on Feb 23, 2010 10:54:40 GMT -1
After many of the open access times at the stones, especially the summer solstice, it is not only litter that has to be cleared but also unauthorised scattering of ashes. English Heritcs, sorry, Heritage allow scattering on a nearby mound. Last year ancient cremations were removed by archeologists and are now in the possession of the British Museum. Arthur Pendragon and others are campaigning for their return. re. litter and ashes - some people are fools and should be slapped. i have seen a fair bit about the cremation burials in the various media and to be honest support the work being done by the archaeologists, after all, without work like thiers we wold know sweet F A about the people who lived and built stonehenge.
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Post by dreamguardian on Feb 23, 2010 12:01:04 GMT -1
i have seen a fair bit about the cremation burials in the various media and to be honest support the work being done by the archaeologists, after all, without work like thiers we wold know sweet F A about the people who lived and built stonehenge. Exactly!
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Post by megli on Feb 23, 2010 13:09:39 GMT -1
My opinion exactly too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 13:34:54 GMT -1
Tonight I am attending a ceremony at a graveyard near London bridge where graverobbers used to dig up recently buried bodies for medical research at a nearby hospital.
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Post by dreamguardian on Feb 24, 2010 5:50:03 GMT -1
... It was a healing stone and when she showed it to me I realed back from the energies. What instructions would that be?
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Post by Chad on Jun 16, 2013 19:40:16 GMT -1
I am very interested in the concept of how our ancestors would go about their practices by way of the experience of a diaspora that their decendants went through with. Since migration is such a common theme throughout human history.
Obviously, we know about Brittany and Brittonia. Granted, as alluded elsewhere, they were probably Christian at the time of their emigration. Although such questions are not answers which can be answered with any certainty, they are fun to ask sometimes. What if our ancestors WERE Pagan at that time? What would their traditions have looked like had they still been Pagan when they scattered across the world? To America? To Canada? Australia? New Zealand? Such questions are not productive. But fun to ask.
I don't know how much interest it would be to most of you, though, being in Britain already.
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