Helo 'na

[megli]

Helo i bawb!

I'm Mark, Megli as was on TDN before my unseemly exit. I hope everyone is well and I look forward to chatting with you.

Hwyl!

[Craig]

Hi Mark,

Good to see another TDN refugee. Sorry that things are a bit quiet at the moment but most of the regulars are at Druid Camp.

Some are arranging a lynching, sorry, attending Mark Graham's nudity lecture ;D

[megli]

Oh christ. ...does he really HAVE to whop it out at every opportunity?

[Lee]

welcome to the site.

i keep hearing off this chap and his ..um... chap. whats the story?

[Craig]

To quote Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride:

"let me explain... no it will take too long... let me sum up"

Mark Graham aka Mr Redpants is the charismatic leader of the Charnwood Grove, possibly the largest non-OBOD grove in the UK. I understand that he has also helped organise druid camp since its inception.

Druid Camp 2006. Mr. Red Pants decides to become Mr. No Pants and he successfully feeds some cock'n'bull story about freedom of expression to his followers so a group of them join in.

No harm in that one thinks, there's always been a few who sunbathe by their tents, or dry themselves off outside the shower.

But Mr.NP decides he will parade around the camp, through the children's area, the public circle, the cafe, dragging his followers with him (all day). When he meets anyone he knows he tries to encourage them to disrobe as well (it was described to me a 'nasty bullying').

When approached by some parents who did not want their small children to have his genitalia closely displayed to them he gets all offended and accuses said parents being fascists and not understanding the spirit of druidry.

After camp there begins the longest and most heated debate on the TDN fora. Apparently those who object to his arrogance are infringing his human rights and all sorts of other malarkey.

If I had been there he would have been nursing a broken nose, if he was lucky. My wife (who works with children) would have rung the police and had him arrested for public order and child protection offences.

I am not against nudity or naturists. But I do like to have the choice about observing said people on a family holiday. His stance was that I should have no right to object if he should want to strip off in front of my small children.

He is one of the two reasons I am not going to camp, despite having free tickets for myself and my family. I am protecting him from me.

So this year he is giving a talk about going au naturel in the hope that he can get his way and turn druid camp into a naturist one. He has made it clear offline that he will fill the tent with Charnwood Grovers to 'prevent any mischief'.

What he has not considered is that a large number of non-grovers also intend to turn up and challenge his arrogance. Let us hope it ends peacefully.

My main concern is that this camp is often the first one newbies bring their often sceptical familys to. It has major speakers and a lovely atmosphere. How will they take it when a gang of naked boors parades in front of them?

He has made it plain that he doesn't care...

[Tegernacus]

and people shell out £90 a time to be dictated to?

I agree, do what you want in your own space. But if he was waving his dangler in front of my daughter he'd find a size 11 paraboot approaching it at velocity.

[megli]

Let's hope it continues to rain.

[Lee]

he sounds like a bit of a twat really. or one of those fascist vegans who get all high and mighty and try to convert.

anybody know the magical equivalent of gonhorrea?

[jez]

i1.trekearth.com/photos/13615/mark.jpg

www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=1171697455

and from the Telegraph...

ALARM OVER CHURCH TALKS WITH DRUIDS


Jonathan Petre
The Telegraph

Senior Church of England clergy are to join Druids and pagans at a controversial conference designed to help "reconcile" the traditions, much to the alarm of Church leaders.

The conference, Spirit of the Land 2000, is described as "a Christian-Druid dialogue and reconciliation meeting for the new Millennium". It is being held against a background of growing interest in New Age religion and white magic. Organisers of the event include Emma Restall Orr, the joint chief of the British Druid Order, the Rev Marcus Small, a vicar in Hertfordshire, and the Dean of Guildford, the Very Rev Alexander Wedderspoon.

According to one of the speakers, a number of clergy already participated In joint Christian and pagan services, but there was still too much ignorance and hostility. Mark Graham, of the Pagan Federation, which represents Druidry, wicca and shamanism, said: "Some pagans believe in magic, just like some Christians believe in the power of prayer and miracles.

"We celebrate our connectedness to nature and I will sometimes dance naked around a fire. They aren't doing much dancing around a fire naked at matins or evensong but perhaps they should. Perhaps they will like it."

The Bishop of Lincoln, the Rt Rev Robert Hardy, who warned about the growth of paganism in a General Synod debate, said the event was "very dubious" and warned that it might lend credibility to questionable beliefs. "I don't think we serve the cause of Christianity by trying to dilute it or saying it doesn't matter. I can't think how it is possible to engage in dialogue when you don't know what they believe."

The day-long conference at Amesbury, Wiltshire, in June, will be chaired by Rosemary Hartill, the former BBC religious affairs correspondent. Speakers include Martin Palmer, a former adviser to Prince Philip, and Ronald Hutton, a professor of history at Bristol University.

The event will end with a Christian service and a Druid ceremony in which a green-robed priestess will make offerings of bread and mead. Canon Michael Cole, an honorary canon of Chelmsford Cathedral who has studied New Age religions, said: "Pagans don't make any distinction between God as creator and what He created. A plant and a planet are equally 'God' to them, which is crazy.

"This type of event gives them credibility, which they ought not to have. It becomes dangerous if it gives the impression that it is okay for Christians to become involved in such things."

--

FYI

--

Jez

[Craig]

Broken link Jez - just goes to '403 Forbidden'.

[Lee]

hmm.. i cant view that ffrom my work PC - i will hazard a guess as to why. will have a look at home later - purely out of professional interest.

[jez]

craig said:

Broken link Jez - just goes to '403 Forbidden'.

Which one? They both work for me

Jez

[suelittleowl]

Wow, missed all of this - I was with the Brythons (Brochfael in full mail with spear) and Ashdown in the very muddy main tent listening to LR give his very interesting talk on Reconstructionism. Bobcat was also there as was Kris and Ian. Oh and a lady who was busy making garlands out of plastic flowers.

I'm not sure that anything happened or was planned to happen at the 'Ritual Nudity' talk - altough its timing was not lost on us.

[suelittleowl]

And Megli - welcome, so pleased you arrived here. It was lovely to meet you and hope we didn't scare Mat too badly! As druids go, the ones in the Yurt were the tame ones!

[megli]

Hi Sue! lovely to have met you too. Poor matt - when Marilyn clasped him to her ample bosom he didn't know what to do or say!

[Blackbird]

They aren't doing much dancing around a fire naked at matins or evensong but perhaps they should.

Honestly... in all my long years involved with pagans, he is the only person I've met that keeps putting this emphasis on nudity. (I suppose the Wiccans are doing it too, but not making a fuss about it) And it's really not helpful to bang on about it when you're trying to get people to take you seriously. Back to this problem of the lunatic fringe being unhelpfully attractive to the media.

Welcome Megli

[Brochfael]

Hello Megli and Welcome.

Mark's workshop/talk on ritual nudity was scheduled to coincide with Little Raven's talk on Brythonic traditions. I can't help but suspect that the time clash was deliberate to avoid Brythonic heckling.

[littleraven]

Hello Mark!

Unfortunately I missed your talks becasue I arrived on the Thursday mid-afternoon and was busy unpacking before I got a chance to check the boards. I'd assumed that someone of your calibre would have one of the weekend slots so didn't check until I was set up. Although at one point I think I saw you in the gate tent as I walked past to my car. I have heard your talks were well worth it though. Dammit.

Yes. MG and nudity, scheduled opposite me so I have no idea what the content was. I'm sure it would have been a bare bones expose, stripping the issue to flesh.

Did I just say that?

LR

[Deleted]

Hi Mark

The nudity thing ... was it really Mark Graham who instigated that?
Last year I was approached and asked to strip off as well, which I also found offensive, but it was by a different group of people so I can't help wondering if this is more about others jumping on the bandwagon for the sake of their own exhibitionism than Mark trying to impose his views on modern druidry. Prior to the "normalise nudity" campaign that went on last year there had never been an issue with nudity at the camp (that I was aware of anyway) so I feel that maybe this is more a case of others craving the same ease and acceptance of their own bodies, and lacking the confidence creating a "them and us" situation to ease their discomfort and Mark ending up the scapegoat.