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Post by Heron on Jun 11, 2011 14:14:34 GMT -1
Heron the second time you pointed me to this post I was struck by the 'poetry not prose' phase. For me that is very much Maponus. He doesn't often give straight answers! As you know I also call Maponus 'GreenMan' but I'm still floundering over the time He should be honoured. Does the modern pagan festival of Mabon have any bearing or is it a later construct/confusion? Does anyone feel the imprisonment theme of Mabon is worth mentioning in relation to Maponus? I knew Maponus as GreenMan before I knew Him as Maponus so I'm more familiar witht he 'feel' of Him rather than know anything about the study of surviving traces of myth Although I've connected him with Midsummer in that piece; as I also argued in a recent post, although the gods may have particular times when we honour them, they are also timeless. The festival of Mabon at the Autumnal Equinox makes no particular sense to me. I've never really understood where it has come from. The release from the prison in Culhwch has always struck me as thematically appropriate to Spring. The bringing forth of vegetation out of darkness, the flourishing of the divine youth when his time has come etc. But themes are one thing, and one way that we can apprehend the gods; what he story teller thought it meant is quite another thing; what the origin story exactly said is something else again!
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Post by nellie on Jun 13, 2011 18:24:00 GMT -1
Have just been having a re-read through old threads (it's amazing how much I missed the first time around!) and had a look at the Mabon thread. I like knowing where I'm going wrong.
The release from prison sometimes puts me in mind of Persephone, but as you say whether that was the intention is another thing entirely! But although it makes me think of coming out of the otherworld I'm not sure I would associate it with spring in this instance? As I mentioned in another thread I get a feeling that Maponus might have some role to play as an initiator. As pure speculation maybe this theme of release from His prison could be applied to some sort of iniation rite? (am I talking s***e?) Maybe some sort of coming to manhood..? I know it's not something that could be agreed on but interesting to discuss none the less ;D
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Post by Heron on Jun 13, 2011 20:18:16 GMT -1
Have just been having a re-read through old threads (it's amazing how much I missed the first time around!) and had a look at the Mabon thread. I like knowing where I'm going wrong. The release from prison sometimes puts me in mind of Persephone, but as you say whether that was the intention is another thing entirely! But although it makes me think of coming out of the otherworld I'm not sure I would associate it with spring in this instance? As I mentioned in another thread I get a feeling that Maponus might have some role to play as an initiator. As pure speculation maybe this theme of release from His prison could be applied to some sort of iniation rite? (am I talking s***e?) Maybe some sort of coming to manhood..? I know it's not something that could be agreed on but interesting to discuss none the less ;D The interesting thing about the Mabon episode in this very episodic tale is that it concludes the 'Oldest Animals' sequence, where each animal is older than the one consulted before until they find one who knows where Mabon is imprisoned. The implications here, if taken literally, is that he must have been there thousands of years. So any literal association with the release after one Winter is certainly impossible. But it's also necessary to read the tale in its whole context, part of which is that the tale-teller is clearly engaging in some sort of comedy burlesque in telling it, deliberately exaggerating for effect. So extracting any themes from the tale has to be instinctive and provisional. The release certainly seems to me to be thematically resonant of the sort of imagery that is there in the idea of return from darkness and therefore of Spring. But I would be the last person to insist that this is what it 'means'. I've used it in that way e.g in my 'Oldest Animals' poem. And I think such use is permissible at the level of creative interpretation. You could equally apply an 'initiation rite' theme on the same basis, but I don't know what that would tell us about Mabon<Maponos? I think we can use such material in any way we wish (as the medieval author clearly did), providing we don't try to restrict its meaning. But if we are going to use it to make a case for a mythological explanation it has to be coherent and directed to a meaningful purpose. Maponos coming to manhood might be such a purpose. But the tale itself doesn't take it any further. So where would it go from there? Perhaps you've got a myth to write
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Post by nellie on Jun 14, 2011 4:47:20 GMT -1
It's a wonderful muddle The initiation thing is just UPG from my sense of Him so I'm probably just looking for things that aren't necessarily there! Hmm, not sure I'm qualified to write that myth just yet, give me a *few* more years LOL!
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Post by redraven on Jun 14, 2011 20:10:36 GMT -1
And now for a perspective at the opposite end of the spectrum. My own experiences have been through interactions experienced whilst out in the environment, not exactly unusual here, but I have never been offered a name by which to tie in with the origin of the source(s) of these interactions. For a number of years, this lack of information led me to consider the nature of these interactions, why was I not experiencing the "classical" pagan interactions? Why was I not privvy to a name by which to help me with any and all definitions? Was I barking? As I have written elsewhere, the first step was to establish whether these interactions were "real" or just imagined. And so I laid a platform down. I requested that any information should be brief. And to date, this premise as been upheld. As I have written elsewhere, I do know that this information was and is originated from more than one source, therefore logic held that the polytheistic worldview was an appropriate framework with which to view these interactions. So I self identified as polytheistic. And because the interactions were based whilst physically being in the landscape, it was clear to me that the land was integral to both the process and the origin of said interactions. Therefore, the Brythonic aspect made itself known to me at a later date. So Brythonic polytheist is and remains entirely within keeping of my self identity at this time. The Gods and Goddesses are present in my life though not formally "announced". My recent work did present me though, with a probable reason as to why that should be. I have associated my interactions most strongly with ancestors, both recent and ancient and I have wondered why this should be. The actions of the early Neolithic peoples and their deposition of human materials, namely bones, suggested a direct interaction with the landscape and recently I have realized why this has connected with me so strongly. Their worldview wasn't influenced by any formalized religions but was one of direct revelation. They experienced the hidden realms directly without the intervention of a widely held formalized structure and this is a path that I am being "encouraged" to develop for myself. So, the presence of the Gods and Goddess's is one that I acknowledge, but is not one that I have experienced on a one to one basis as most here and I am led to believe that my interactions may never be on that particular basis at all (one to one). That does not, however, stop me from playing a part in specific rituals for specific Gods at specific times. I may not have had their names specifically given to me, but that does not mean that therefore I should not acknowledge them when appropriate. If I talk to a man (or woman) in the street, do I need his / her name to qualify my talk with him / her or is it enough that he / she chooses at that time to interact and exchange information with me?
RR
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Post by Heron on Jun 15, 2011 15:02:30 GMT -1
As no views were offered about putting up the 'Maponos and Midsummer' piece on the website, and as I'm aware not everyone makes that association, I've done two things:
1. Put up a brief introduction to Maponos on the "Our Understanding of the Gods' section of the site.
2. Created a 'Perspectives' section under 'God and Goddesses' and put an edited version of the article - not mentioning Midsummer - in that place.
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Post by Lee on Jun 15, 2011 15:39:54 GMT -1
Sorry heron, must have glanced over the post about putting the pot upon the site. looks good up on there now. i created a link to that page from the 'gods' page too in addition to the automatic link from the drop down menu. the site is filling up nicely I need to do my own section on the gods and my own personal stuff to add to the others.
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Post by redraven on Jun 15, 2011 15:54:50 GMT -1
I'll post my earlier post from this thread in the section personal perspectives, if nothing else, for a slightly different take on it. Anyone with an objection, please raise it here.
RR
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Post by Lee on Jun 15, 2011 17:14:30 GMT -1
go for it RR. pop a divider between your and Herons and we can start amassing a lot of different perspectives on the gods
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Post by Lee on Jun 17, 2011 15:08:32 GMT -1
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Post by Chad on May 11, 2013 17:00:58 GMT -1
For me, Belyn (Belenos), and Taran seem to be taking notice of me. I haven't been involved in Brythonic polytheism for long. But, these two seem to be big parts so far. Belyn has been patient with me. I was interested in him before I was involved much with Celtic beliefs. When I discovered Taran, something just clicked. I am not going to lay any certain claims like "Taran has spoken to me.", or "Belyn has claimed me.". I don't want to risk offending the gods if I'm wrong. A lot of where I get drawn in is themes recurring in my mind. Like, if I'm walking to work, I feel wind rushing and I feel like it's Mabon. He pops up in my mind when there is a breeze. A lot of times, it's simple things like that. Just little things that happen, and when they do, a god or goddess pops up in my mind. When I look at the economic disparity and injustice that I speak out against, I think of Math, and his sense of justice. When it comes to the environment and nature, I think of Modron, I think of Dôn when it comes to rivers, well, they just kind of pop up in my head. I'd like to think maybe that's the gods teaching me about themselves.
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