Aerfen Goddess of war and Llyn Tegid?

[Deleted]

I've been wondering about Aerfen lately. The meaning of Aerfen has been given as meaning 'battle goddess' or 'goddess of war', from aer (battle) and fen or men (fate). Apparently Aerfen was one of the names of the river now called the Dee and - it is this which has interested me particularly - it was, according to Sir John Rhys, an old name for Llyn Tegid, now called Lake Bala (the waters of which I think have some relationship with the Dee).

There's no way of knowing I realise... but I wonder if the lake being associated with a battle goddess (or goddess of fate?), whether this goddess might have inspired the figure of Ceridwen who lived in Llyn Tegid and whose burst cauldron gives birth to a poisonous stream...

I wondered what the linguists here would make of the name Aerfen?

[megli]

No probs with this one... Aeron is from an even more blatant version of the 'war goddess' name: Aeron comes from *Agrona, 'Goddess of Slaughter'. Not come across Aerfen as a name myself but it would be from *Agrobena, 'Woman of Slaughter' (or something close.)

PS there's no word men or fen to my knowledge.

[Deleted]

Thanks for that, Megli.

After I posted last time I had another look at Marged Haycock's note on Kerrituen and presumed the -fen was from ben - 'woman' which she says is rarely attested in Welsh but certain enough.

I must ask - though I'm pretty certain the answer will be no ;D - you know Ifor Williams thought the name was originally Cyrridfen and derived the first part from cwr(r) giving, he thought, the meaning 'curved, bent' and Cyrridfen as the name given to a crooked-back hag... and Marged offers
1. cwrr + rhit + ben - 'woman with angular embrace'; or 2. a formation from cryt 'fever,ague, shakes' + ben; or 3. from creit 'passionate, inflamed'; or 4. from older Credidfen (cf verb credu), etymologically related to Creirwy, the name of her daughter?

Well, is there the slightest chance that cwr(r) is related to cwrw 'ale'? It's just that reading the poems which mention her she comes across to me as a sort of spirit of intoxication and thinking of Irish texts connecting poets with the word meisce which can mean ‘in a mental ferment’ as well as ‘intoxicated’, and often describe them as being heated or having inflamed faces while composing I wondered if there might be something like that going on with Ceridwen. Maybe creit 'passionate, inflamed' would cover it though, it might not have to be connected with beer or ale. Could the name mean 'woman who inflames'? Or would it have to be 'inflamed/passionate woman'?

[megli]

Bloody hell, what a learned question! [sound of rusty machinery in my head]

I think the answer is probably no, sadly---because then the -id- element becomes very difficult to explain and you shouldn't have syllables in words which you can't explicate---all the other explanations do have that virtue. Also cwrw is from *kuruma and should yield cwrwf- in composition.

IW's 'Crooked Woman' still makes best sense to me, though all Marged's suggestions are possible and indeed (as one would expect) both learned and ingenious.

(In case I wasn't clear in my OP, the *bena in *Agrobena is the word that give you your W. ben (lenited as -fen), which as you say is rare but not unheard of, cf. Irish bean, English queen/quean, Gk gune, dialectical Gk bana. In other words there is no stand-alone word 'fen' and this 'men = fate' thing is a mirage, to my knowledge---the only men in W is a word for sled or wagon.)

[Deleted]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the answer would be no, but at least I can put it to rest now.

I rather like the 'crooked woman' translation, being a crooked woman myself ;D