|
Post by Heron on Feb 20, 2016 13:21:32 GMT -1
If we think about the 'eightfold year' ( which I think is a modern wiccan thing rather than anything identified in antiquity ) we have four Earth festivals and four Sun festivals. The problem with the latter is that if we think of them in terms of what the Sun is doing they are precise astronomical events which only last for an instant, and the times at which these occur are at different times of day or night in different years because they are not precisely aligned to our arbitrary calendar. So unless we are intent on celebrating these precise events at the exact time they occur we need to consider other ways in which they are meaningful. For the Winter Solstice we are already doing this, celebrating the re-birth of the Sun not so much at the precise time this occurs astronomically, but regarding the Solstice Season as an extended event. This concurs with the fact that, although there is a precise time when the days start getting longer, this is hardly noticeable for several days and in fact the dawn continues to to be later until the end of December as the small increase in day length occurs in the evening. The changes in day length either side of both the Winter and the Summer Solstices is very slight, while at the Equinoxes it is considerable. So I think we need to think of both Solstices as a time of relative stasis and the Equinoxes as a time of change. If the Winter Solstice is when there is a pause at Midwinter then the Summer Solstice is a time when there a pause at Midsummer, so both Midwinter and Midsummer are extended seasons in distinction to the astronomical events that the Solstices are.
We have established our Midwinter observances. What about Midsummer? My own feelings about this are expressed in the 'Hymn to Maponos at Midsummer' which is on the website. I see it as his festival and as a time when the long days sem to be everlasting as the promise of enchantment and fertility in May is fulfilled and everything is bursting with life and in full flow. There is a rather silly rite involving rolling a wheel downhill to symbolise the fact that the days begin to get shorter after the Summer Solstice. But they hardly do for some time. This is a season which extends into July. The alternative custom of doing this at Lughnasadh perhaps makes more sense. But this is not a time to be thinking of things going downhill. Just as Midwinter is a time of repose and slow renewal, so Midsummer is a time of extended life and exuberance.
So I would suggest thinking of these two festivals not as astronomical events but as extended seasons when the low ebb and the high flow are, in their turns, dominant. So what about the Equinoxes? Again if we switch our focus from the precise instant when each of these occurs, of passing a particular point rather than a change of direction, and think of them as times of more rapid change I think it is easier to make them meaningful. At the Spring Equinox things are moving forward at a pace and the suggestions of a celebration of emerging flowers and a festival for Blodeuwedd which have been made do seem to fit in with this. Similarly at the Autumn Equinox everything is coming to fruition and to celebrate Harvest at this time does seem appropriate. Of course things happen at different times in different parts of the country so some flexibility is needed if the festivals are to be in tune with what is happening in Nature, and not being tied to precise astronomical events does help here.
The above is an attempt to clarify things rather than anything intended to be dogmatic. Does it help us think about these four festivals? The other four 'Earth' festivals are, I think, easier, though as has been indicated, we don't seem all that clear about the significance of Lughnasadh beyond 'first fruits' , or how Lugus fits into it. This needs more discussion.
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Feb 21, 2016 11:16:22 GMT -1
@ Heron - that's provided clarity on the sun festivals. Yes, associations with Maponos would fit with the summer solstice. Although there's nothing written about him being a solar deity I personally see him as having solar qualities as a radiant youth. I see Mabon's release happening some time before Calan Mai in the run up to Culhwch and Olwen's marriage, which I see as taking place at that time.
It makes intuitive sense to me to celebrate the solstices as times of stillness and equinoxes as times of change. However Potia's said she doesn't really want us to change the calendar so I think we ultimately we need to reach some kind of compromise on what the whole group wants to do.
|
|
|
Post by redraven on Feb 21, 2016 14:23:11 GMT -1
With regard to the equinoxes, as I posted, they do have "genetic meaning" for me, with my father's birthday being March 20th and my mother's being September 21st, but it goes beyond that for me. The spring equinox for me is the "greening". Yes, the equinox is a precise astronomical event but I don't now "feel the need" to be precise about it. Much like the discussed solstices, I see them more as a period of time, usually two or three days that mark at time of "peaks". The Autumn one is the "Reddening" for me, because I have grown up with the four seasons in the UK and I do think you need the four seasons to hold to an either six or eight festival year although with climate change, it's fair to say that the Reddening probably takes place more in October than September. So yes, the equinoxes are solar festivals, but for me, they go beyond that, they are times "I experience both physically and mentally" a quickening or a slowing of the energies in the environment. So I tend to treat the equinoxes in a similar vein as to what Heron has suggested with the Solstices, that being an extended period of time that encapsulates the actual physical marker but is not strictly tied to it.
|
|
|
Post by potia on Feb 21, 2016 20:55:58 GMT -1
I think for me it's a case of too much, too quickly, for me to take in.
An extended period at the solstice makes sense to me as does the link to Maponos. It's a bit difficult for me personally to be sure with the timings but Romans did link Maponos to Apollo Lorna, so there might be solar aspects via that route.
Equinoxes for me are distinguishable in terms of light and sunrise/set directions but not much else. Yes one is in the spring and one the autumn but there's a lot more to both those seasons than the equinoxes for me.
A beginning of August festival seasonally is meaningless to me. If it's to be day dedicated to a deity I can get that but don't feel it is part of a core cycle. More an additional deity day.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Feb 22, 2016 22:29:07 GMT -1
The more I think about it, the more I think most of these 8 are less about singular events and ore about times of change. Perhaps we should think in terms of these all being festival seasons whether a few days or a couple of weeks long. In that case there is the opportunity to add individual components and themes without having to try to pack it all into one day. That being the case, we *could* have the festival of mothers at midsummer when the land is bursting with life and putting out all of the promise of a bounty of summer and autumn? Unless there is a good reason to have it at another itme, it also allows us to make more at this time of year. it would however be good to really sit down and be clear about what we are wanting to celebrate, when we want to do it and what the existing 8 festivals mean to us. Lughnasadh is the big problematic one because it is the most removed from our modern lives in terms of harvesting - Francis aside here And as I have said, the equinoxes really dont feature for me - what is going on then, has already begun and been marked by changed events. This might be best for face to face talk.
|
|
|
Post by Heron on Feb 23, 2016 13:11:21 GMT -1
I think we're getting there .... but it occurred to be that the problems we are having seeing this clearly is that we are talking about two things which need to be associated with each other but are also different. One is a cycle of the seasons. The other is specific festival days for the gods. I think this has happened because we have wanted to acknowledge Eponalia in the Roman festival calendar and we have incorporated this into out Midwinter festival. This is fine, of course, but if we want a six-point cycle (or 8, or 12 ...) we need to think of the seasonal cycle first and then how the gods' festival days relate to that. As Lee says, we don't only want to venerate gods on specific days and Epona may well also be represented somewhere else in the cycle. So if we want to stick with the six-fold wheel, we could define six points in the yearly round as a starting point and then start to think what observances are appropriate and which gods in particular we associate with those observances. This would allow us to have a fixed structure within which a considerable degree of flexibility would still be available as to observances and devotional activities for particular gods. I'll try, as an outline draft, a table Season
| Observances
| Gods/Festivals
| Midwinter | Solstice
Mothers Night | Epona
Mothers Night | Spring | Hearth Rite
Equinox
Flower Festival | Brigantia
Ffraid
Blodeuwedd
| Calan Mai | Beltane | Belenos
Rigantona | Midsummer | Solstice
| Maponos | Autumn | Equinox
Harvest
| Lugos | Calan Gaeaf | Samhain
Winter Nights | Grey Mare
Cailleach (?)
Gwyn
|
This can be adjusted, have things added or taken away as needed by individuals or groups while still providing a structure everyone can use. Perhaps Spring and Autumn could have alternative names. Other changes might also be necessary. But would this work?
|
|
|
Post by redraven on Feb 23, 2016 17:09:17 GMT -1
I do like that Heron, it gives flexibility and using the yearly six starting points, certainly for me, works very well. Like that a lot!
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Feb 23, 2016 23:37:25 GMT -1
Ha! Great minds! I was thinking that we might want to switch from six spokes representing six festivals to six 'seasons', but hadn't got so far to put it like this. This REALLY works for me, it covers all the things we want and emphasises that most often, it is the change or stillness we are marking rather than a precise moment or event. As a basis upon which to hang a whole host of shared and personal rituals and festivals - this is fantastic
|
|
|
Post by Gwenno on Feb 25, 2016 8:51:02 GMT -1
So this means that I can use this and fit my personal visions in here?
Or does it have to be more organised than that?
|
|
|
Post by Heron on Feb 25, 2016 20:02:24 GMT -1
So this means that I can use this and fit my personal visions in here? Or does it have to be more organised than that? It doesn't have to be organised if spontaneity is preferred. But as it's a way of structuring seasonal observances I think it does need to be approached with some commitment. If by 'personal visions' you mean experience of the gods, and you want to acknowledge this in a structured way then yes. Of course personal visions are also quite valid as part of unstructured and undefined individual experience (which many of us are subject too as well) but what we are attempting here is defining a pattern of observances that we can all subscribe to as Brythonic Polytheists.
|
|
|
Post by Gwenno on Feb 26, 2016 22:53:09 GMT -1
Sounds good to me.
Not sure how I tell the difference between visions and gods. Work in progress
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Feb 27, 2016 13:38:14 GMT -1
@ Heron - I like this alot. Somehow you have managed to reduce the eight seasonal observances to six and I can't for the life of me see what is missing, which is a good thing And good to keep the tradition of the six spoked wheel. BY THE WAY, WHERE IS THAT WHEEL? I think the next step is to get this into a format we can put on the festivals page. Once we've done this we can start thinking about gathering material for the blog. @ Boudicca - this is a basic structure but there's plenty of room for personal experiences and visions. Whilst we're going to follow this calendar it's not completely set in stone and of course it's necessary to make it personal and fit it with our own experiences of the seasons and the gods.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Feb 27, 2016 19:05:11 GMT -1
here it is, if anyone wants to have a go at redrawing it digitally and with better resolution - please do. You would be disgusted if you knew how I produced this. I am going to have a go at doing a lino-cut print of this at some point soon so may well have a rather nice image to use Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Feb 28, 2016 19:05:55 GMT -1
Cool Is there any way of getting it up on the site? This could provide the link between the website and blog. Was it based on the wheel held by Taranis in his depiction at Le Chatelet?
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Feb 28, 2016 20:17:46 GMT -1
Done. I have put it on the pages where there is no submenu for now.
I cant recall specifically but yep, the six spoked thunder/solar wheels.
On the subject of the blog - anyone had any thoughts of a name for it?
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Mar 6, 2016 13:25:53 GMT -1
I'm quite happy with something that says what it does on the tin - Dun Brython or Brython unless anyone else has a better idea. Another possibility could be something Rigantona based - perhaps relating to a grey or white mare?
Any ideas about how to sort the festivals? Might it be easiest to begin with just stripping the site down to the festival dates for now and building them up? Of course this only works if everyone agrees. My concern with the festival section at the moment is the group referring to itself as 'we' is not the active Brython group anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Heron on Mar 7, 2016 15:58:32 GMT -1
I'm quite happy with something that says what it does on the tin - Dun Brython or Brython unless anyone else has a better idea. Another possibility could be something Rigantona based - perhaps relating to a grey or white mare? I agree that it needs to say what it does on the tin - with blogs it does need to be obvious what it's about. 'Brythonic Polytheism' seems nice and obvious if maybe a bit lacking in imagination. The other way to think about it is to use something a bit more intriguing to attract curiosity. Nemeton? Any ideas about how to sort the festivals? Might it be easiest to begin with just stripping the site down to the festival dates for now and building them up? Of course this only works if everyone agrees. My concern with the festival section at the moment is the group referring to itself as 'we' is not the active Brython group anymore. This would give us a firmer base to work from. The Lugos entry departs from 'we' to 'I' and speculates about links between Belenos and Lugos, which is OK if discussing the gods but i think here we need to be a bit more definite about what we celebrate, or are inviting others to celebrate. We could, I suppose, start from the six points of the year as the commonly agreed cycle, if we are agreed about that, and then get different individuals to say what they do within that two-month window. The problem is, the current 'active Brython group' may not be enough to sustain this.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Mar 7, 2016 20:56:32 GMT -1
Dun Brython - A Brythonic Polytheist Blog perhaps? title and subtitle.
I agree - drop the festival page as it is, put up a page for each season with a brief piece about each 'season' and those festivals that fall within in. As we go through the coming year we can add more content to each festival about personal practice and possible ways of celebrating. Some of the basis can be trasported over from the old festival page to add some flesh to the content where it is generic about the meaning
|
|
|
Post by Gwenno on Mar 8, 2016 18:36:49 GMT -1
So, OK, Spring Equinox coming up.
What do I do?
|
|