|
Post by Heron on Nov 24, 2017 15:57:04 GMT -1
Lorna - It’s good to see you continuing presence in Pagan Dawn with your ‘Hunter in the Skies’ poem reconstructing the Twrch Trwyth story. I noticed you mention , in the note to this, the story of Sirius as Dormach’s red nose. The idea that Sirius is Orion’s dog is in Homer and other ancient Greek stories about Orion. So the ‘Hunter and his Dog’ is firmly established in the mythological record. I see, too, that someone has posted some astrological links on the Brython blog post of ‘Gwyn’s Hunt’ and that, Lee , you have commented expressing scepticism. There is, of course, no need to speculate on astrological significances to refer to constellations as inspirations for mythological references and the ones on the blog comments do seem a bit far-fetched. I don’t think there are any early Welsh or Irish uses of astrological symbolism related to Orion or Sirius. At least I don’t remember anything in Fiery Shapes (Megli?).
But one thing that does intrigue me is the identification of Sirius as a red star (and therefore, in the note in Pagan Dawn, that it is Dormach’s red nose). Sirius looks distinctly blue-white in colour if observed now. But it was referred to by several ancient writers as a red star, leading to much speculation about possible colour change over time. Others have thought that it is simply a matter of one person getting it wrong and others copying the initial reference without actually looking at the star (It’s not only on the internet that this happens!). Nonetheless its redness is as firmly established in ancient lore as its blueness is in current astronomical observation. An interesting case of reconstruction -v- observation, though, to go back to the poem, “the hunter’s truth” and the dream he gave must also count as evidence.
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Nov 26, 2017 11:57:12 GMT -1
To be honest I found the argument on the Mabinogion Astrology blog post on Pryderi, Pwyll, and Arawn confusing and there seemed to be a lot of errors. For example the author has conflated Greid son of Eri who is the owner of Drudwyn, Fierce White, and Gwythyr ap Greidol (Victor son of Scorcher) into one figure called Greid son of Scorcher, then said Fierce White is Canis Major and hunts with Orion/Arawn (!). Like Lee I don't think 'Orion -uh-rahy-uhn, Arawn -A-ra-oon' is enough to argue for their identification.
For me identifying Gwyn with Orion is partly inspired by Yuri's speculations but more from me sensing Gwyn's presence as the Hunter in the Skies with Dormach beside him watching over the season of winter. In addition to this Gwyn, as a 'Bull of Battle', is connected with bulls and thus perhaps was seen to be hunting 'Taurus'. I'm sure I've seen it speculated somewhere that the Seven Sisters are Twrch Trwyth's piglets but would have to dig around for that and, if so, where is Twrch Trwyth?
I believe the constellations would have been important to our Brythonic ancestors. Our monuments show that they were aligned toward the sun, the moon, and the stars and had sacred meaning to them. They were bound up with the passing seasons and no doubt the seasonal stories of the gods. Unfortunately because we have no evidence for which stories or gods all we can do is speculate and work with our own intuitions and gnoses.
|
|
|
Post by gruffudd on Nov 29, 2017 9:01:33 GMT -1
I've actually just bought an interesting book on this called Dark Land, Dark Skies by Martin Griffiths. Its more of a reimagining in my opinion and doesn't state its based on ancient evidence but relates the myths to the constellations as we see them now, without that nuisance we call recession.
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Dec 1, 2017 10:45:28 GMT -1
I've actually just bought an interesting book on this called Dark Land, Dark Skies by Martin Griffiths. Its more of a reimagining in my opinion and doesn't state its based on ancient evidence but relates the myths to the constellations as we see them now, without that nuisance we call recession. That sounds really interesting. I see it's published by Seren so the standard should be good.
|
|
|
Post by Heron on Dec 1, 2017 14:41:11 GMT -1
I've actually just bought an interesting book on this called Dark Land, Dark Skies by Martin Griffiths. Its more of a reimagining in my opinion and doesn't state its based on ancient evidence but relates the myths to the constellations as we see them now, without that nuisance we call recession. This is reviewed in the current issue of PLANET Magazine by Will Parker who seems to think it's much better on the astronomy than the Mabinogi references. But certainly worth a look.
|
|
|
Post by gruffudd on Dec 1, 2017 21:42:03 GMT -1
It is very heavy on actual astronomy but a good read even even for myself who knows next to nothing of the technicalities of the matter.
|
|
|
Post by lorna on Dec 4, 2017 19:29:31 GMT -1
I've actually just bought an interesting book on this called Dark Land, Dark Skies by Martin Griffiths. Its more of a reimagining in my opinion and doesn't state its based on ancient evidence but relates the myths to the constellations as we see them now, without that nuisance we call recession. This is reviewed in the current issue of PLANET Magazine by Will Parker who seems to think it's much better on the astronomy than the Mabinogi references. But certainly worth a look. It looks like an interesting review but unfortunately it's subscribers only. Planet Magazine is a magazine I'd like to subscribe to, but £22 a year is just a bit steep for me at the moment.
|
|