Hello from Bristol

[johntoffee]

Hi,
I'm a sculptor hailing from Carmarthen originally. I recently came across a thread from this site discussing the tradition of the Oldest Animals as found in Culhwch and Olwen, the Triads and other old Welsh literary sources. I think the thread dates back to 2007.

I have written about this subject in some detail and I thought members might be interested in my (surprising) findings, which you can find at mabinogionastronomy.blogspot.com The relevant post is titled 'The Route of the Oldest Animals in Culhwch ac Olwen'. Actually it's incomplete as I've recently been too busy with the day job.

[lorna]

Hello johntoffee,

Thanks for stopping by. Someone going by the name of Ladyyingyang pointed us in the direction of a couple of your blog posts a couple of weeks ago. I've got to admit I know nothing about astrology so struggled to get my head around them. I'd be interested to hear about your processes and how you think the Welsh myths and deities map onto the constellations in general. In the meantime I'll check out your Oldest Animals post.

[johntoffee]

Hi Lorna,

Thanks for saying hello.

My thinking on this subject began around forty years ago, when I read a note to the character of Gwydion in Lady Charlotte Guest's translation of The Fourth Branch, in which she stated that, in Wales the Milky Way is known as Caer Gwydion, the constellation Cassiopiea is known as Llys Don and the constellation Corona Borealis is known as Caer Arianrhod. I wondered if this was in the intention of the 'author'. 

I don't know much about Astrology either. Instead I focus on the kind of Astronomy (the acme of the Quadrivium - the higher level of the Seven Liberal Arts) which was current in the 'clasau' or early to mid medieval Welsh monastic settlements, such as Llanbadarn Fawr and Llancarfan, where such scholars as Rhygyfarch ap Sulien and Caradoc flourished. In other words, both these men were highly trained astronomers (of their day), and both these men have been seriously mooted as the authors of at least some of the stories of the 'Mabinogion' by the world's leading scholars on this subject.

Anyway I am loving trawling through this site.

[Heron]

Dec 6, 2017 14:59:01 GMT -1 johntoffee said:

Hi,
I'm a sculptor hailing from Carmarthen originally. I recently came across a thread from this site discussing the tradition of the Oldest Animals as found in Culhwch and Olwen, the Triads and other old Welsh literary sources. I think the thread dates back to 2007.

I have written about this subject in some detail and I thought members might be interested in my (surprising) findings, which you can find at mabinogionastronomy.blogspot.com The relevant post is titled 'The Route of the Oldest Animals in Culhwch ac Olwen'. Actually it's incomplete as I've recently been too busy with the day job.

Yes that's fascinating, especially as you include the Toad of Cors Fochno (my local bog) which I've always wanted to fit into the scheme in Culhwch. I'm not sure quite what to make of your speculations on first reading but will certainly return to them. I note that you use John Bollard's edition of Culhwch. Apart from the usefulness of Anthony Griffiths' photos in both this and the separate Mabinogi book for locating the tales in their landscape, I also like his translation in that it is as interested in conveying the style of the original Welsh as providing an accurate rendering of the meaning of the words. Though some might find the style slightly awkward in English I prefer this to, say, Sioned Davies more fluent rendering.

I also picked up the link to your 'day job' site below the post on the Perseus statue (though it didn't work when clicked as you have an '@' where you should have an '.'). But very impressive when I did get there!

[johntoffee]

oops

[johntoffee]

Ah Heron,

I left you a message regarding your post on Cors Fochno on your Caer Feddwyd site, last January. Lovely it is, and I should acknowledge that I have relied heavily on your translation of Thomas Williams' version of the 'Oldest Animals', in order to produce a very condensed rendition of it, in my most recent post on Mabinogion Astronomy': A Tale of Two Toads'. It's still a work in progress but you might be interested to read how I think the Toad of Cors Fochno fits precisely into the Culhwch version of events.

Yes, I agree with you concerning John Bollard and Anthony Griffith's books. It is so useful to be able to link the text with the landscape, and also to have relevant informative notes on the same page.

Thanks for comments on day job, and the heads up for @.

[lorna]

Dec 9, 2017 22:59:05 GMT -1 johntoffee said:

Hi Lorna,

Thanks for saying hello.

My thinking on this subject began around forty years ago, when I read a note to the character of Gwydion in Lady Charlotte Guest's translation of The Fourth Branch, in which she stated that, in Wales the Milky Way is known as Caer Gwydion, the constellation Cassiopiea is known as Llys Don and the constellation Corona Borealis is known as Caer Arianrhod. I wondered if this was in the intention of the 'author'. 

I don't know much about Astrology either. Instead I focus on the kind of Astronomy (the acme of the Quadrivium - the higher level of the Seven Liberal Arts) which was current in the 'clasau' or early to mid medieval Welsh monastic settlements, such as Llanbadarn Fawr and Llancarfan, where such scholars as Rhygyfarch ap Sulien and Caradoc flourished. In other words, both these men were highly trained astronomers (of their day), and both these men have been seriously mooted as the authors of at least some of the stories of the 'Mabinogion' by the world's leading scholars on this subject.

Anyway I am loving trawling through this site.

Thanks for explaining a little about your processes. I was unaware of the astronomical traditions of the medieval Welsh monastic settlements.

I've read your posts on the route of the oldest animals and the two toads and was intrigued by their plotting onto a circle and to hear about your alternative location for Cilgwri and identification of the 'red stump'. It was also good to be introduced to the toad traditions of Ynys Fach Llyfan Gawr.

I also hadn't heard of the Triad of 'The Three Elders of the World' where the blackbird is called 'Mwyalchen Gelli Gadarn' 'the Blackbird of the Mighty Grove' . Is that in the Triads of the Island of Britain?

Maybe someone should suggest the development of an Oldest Animals trail like the Twrch Trwyth trail? I've wanted to visit some of those locations for a while.