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Post by Blackbird on Dec 7, 2005 15:26:57 GMT -1
how about a spanner in the works? Yes, I like spanners Now, I will have to dig for this - but I remember speaking with someone clever a long while ago who opined that Aranrhot could refer to a fortress. This could still give us a fortified hill of course, but without the emphasis on earth. She is of course, strongly connected with the idea of forts, in her home Caer Arianrhod. I prefer the traditional Fair Deft-Hand myself. To me, that communicates a great deal about Lleu's physical skills and appearance. Not sold on that - particularly as we haven't yet established whether the sun was viewed as male in early Brythonic culture I can't see any solar attributes connected with Gwydion, though I can understand why the Victorians thought Lleu was solar... to me, Gwydion is a maker, a shaper. The wizard par excellence. Regarding his fertility... well, becoming a female animal and bearing the child of your brother is unorthodox... ;D However, if - and it's a big if! - Lleu and Lugh are the same Person, then there is a connection with harvest. Lugh negotiates, sometimes violently, with the spirits of the land in order to release the harvest for the use of humanity. So while he isn't a 'Corn God', he does have links with the harvest. That is an interesting thought I understand that the stone of Goronwy exists - has anyone seen it?
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Post by Brochfael on Dec 8, 2005 8:46:18 GMT -1
Arianrhod as a burial mound may also serve to link her closer with Arawn. I have heard it suggested that she was the wife of Arawn who Pwyll resisted making love to, perhaps by so doing being blessed with the love of Rhiannon?
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Post by Lee on Dec 9, 2005 12:08:01 GMT -1
now thats interesting brochfael. where did you come across that?
damn. just remebereed.. the copy of Gruffydds math vab Mathonwy is in the library toay! id better go pick it up. should be lots to discuss in that!
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Post by viridis on Dec 9, 2005 20:20:55 GMT -1
May I throw another spanner? Connection between Lugh and Lleu, I can't be sure of, connection betwen Lleu and solar aspect, I couldn't say, but as for Lugh and solar? That I *can* do ;D Lugh, as I've been taught, doesn't represent the sun - he is seen as the heat and light of the sun, a slight difference. He is, essentially, the creative masculine element of creation - without the warmth and light in summer there would be no crops - and corn is the most obvious food source, hence the association. In the Irish, heat and light are life-giving attributes, the active part of creation (as opposed to the passive female side) and are masculine. My feeling, and this is nothing more than a hunch , is that Lleu and Lugh are the same, but that one culture focussed on the heat/light aspect and the the other more on the creative, craftsman aspect...
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Post by apothecary on Dec 10, 2005 20:53:48 GMT -1
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Post by Blackbird on Dec 11, 2005 11:11:23 GMT -1
I'm on the Cro Loga list, and can second the recommendation - some great discussions on there.
I agree with Viridis - the idea that Lleu and Lugh are solar begins and ends with the Victorians and the obsession of folks like Fraser with the idea that 'primitive' peoples worshipped the sun as their principle god. I've done a fair bit of research into the symbolism of Lugh's mythology, part of which was published in Pagan Dawn earlier this year. I can post the article up onto the site if anyone wants to read it.
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Post by viridis on Dec 11, 2005 11:27:10 GMT -1
I can post the article up onto the site if anyone wants to read it. Yes please ;D
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Post by Lee on Dec 11, 2005 13:08:13 GMT -1
I can post the article up onto the site if anyone wants to read it. Yes please ;D indeedy do please
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Post by Blackbird on Dec 13, 2005 8:47:07 GMT -1
Your wish is my command It's up in the Articles section, there's a link from the front page of the site. Do bear in mind though, that it only looks at Lugh in Ireland. Let me know what you think I've also sent a note announcing it to the Cro Loga list - as they were instrumental in the writing of it.
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Post by Brochfael on Dec 25, 2005 20:14:45 GMT -1
> I have heard it suggested that she was the wife of Arawn who Pwyll resisted making love to, perhaps by so doing being blessed with the love of Rhiannon
I wish I could remember where I read this. It may have been hinted at in a novel, possibly one of the Lawhead Arthur ones. Another possiblity is Hugin The Bards book of Pagan songs.
Either way I'm sure it wasn't a reliable source but it does make a certain sense to me.
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