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Post by Lee on Jun 19, 2011 0:34:54 GMT -1
That is quite a huge task there Craig - though i will say the geology analogy doesnt hold, i would regularly do just that on fieldwork and did several projects on that very subject; a full palaeoecological analysis of a section. Off topic now.
Where do we draw the line? we can go with palaeo/meso/neo lithic, bronze, iron and dark ages. romano british, the gamut of different Anglo saxon, germanic religions. then there are the various christian sects and systems that arrived and have been here, islam, hinduism and that doesnt take into account the religous beleifs brought here with the Roman legionaries; we have Mithras, isis etc etc
On this little island we have a gigantic crossroads of religious belief - to try to encompass them all is just too much of a task.
It also begs the question - if we cover everything, then what makes us stand out? With recent activity on blogs and what has arisen from the new website, we stand out because we focus on the British, on that which arose here in Britain. To try to blend in all else means the unique selling point we have - to be blunt - is lost in the mix.
It has also been said, those other gods just dont call to us all. if they call to you or somebody else then great, but to me they dont speak.
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Post by nellie on Jun 19, 2011 7:12:10 GMT -1
Would it show my inexperience if I said we could try to look for the common threads that run through the many cultural layers? Those things which continue to be important to us as an evolving culture throughout history.
For instance the a belief in magic seems to always have existed to some degree. What druids were supposed to have done sounds like magic, and there is a lots to work with from the anglo-saxons, viking influence seems to indicate 'shamanic' type practises. Much, much later foundation deposits were still common and herbal practioners using plants energies as well as physical properties.
This is the most obvious example but surely there must be other commonalities between the cultural layers that would prove an asset to Brython?
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Post by redraven on Jun 19, 2011 7:52:16 GMT -1
That is quite a huge task there Craig - though i will say the geology analogy doesnt hold, i would regularly do just that on fieldwork and did several projects on that very subject; a full palaeoecological analysis of a section. And did you do it without the neccessary tools and background training? (Which was my point here, though clumsily put.  ) The tools we are using are, to an extent, self taught, therefore we need to make sure we have got it right and concentrating on a smaller "sample" size, gives us the chance to modify and improve them. On this little island we have a gigantic crossroads of religious belief - to try to encompass them all is just too much of a task. It also begs the question - if we cover everything, then what makes us stand out? With recent activity on blogs and what has arisen from the new website, we stand out because we focus on the British, on that which arose here in Britain. To try to blend in all else means the unique selling point we have - to be blunt - is lost in the mix. Sentiments that I have to say, I am in agreement with. RR |
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Post by redraven on Jun 19, 2011 8:04:10 GMT -1
Would it show my inexperience if I said we could try to look for the common threads that run through the many cultural layers? Those things which continue to be important to us as an evolving culture throughout history. Unfortunately, not as simple as it first sounds (no disrepect to yourself here Nellie). For example, earlier in this thread I was using 1066 as a potential marker for a transition point, but actually, that transition point would only have been valid as a marker for a cultural shift in Brythonic society (and then geographically limited initially). If we were to use genetic markers, that is to say what did the Normans contribute to the modern Briton's geneology, then the answer would be very little because they were a ruling elite and did not interbreed on a large scale. For instance the a belief in magic seems to always have existed to some degree. What druids were supposed to have done sounds like magic, and there is a lots to work with from the anglo-saxons, viking influence seems to indicate 'shamanic' type practises. Much, much later foundation deposits were still common and herbal practioners using plants energies as well as physical properties. This is the most obvious example but surely there must be other commonalities between the cultural layers that would prove an asset to Brython? We need to identfy these markers though, which is why I think our research on a specific period in time, at this point of Brython's evolution, is appropriate to us at this minute. The realization of that though, is that it is very possible some of us may not witness the time when these tools / objectives have been modified to a degree that their use may provide us with the means to achieve what Craig speaks of here. Speaking personally, I would rather make a good job of a smaller sample than a mediocre job of a large sample. For me it's all about laying down the markers and unfortunately, that cannot be rushed too much. RR |
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Post by Craig on Jun 19, 2011 8:56:53 GMT -1
Nice to see we still have a wide and lively range of thinkers here  My point, less poetically put, is that if we fail to understand the layers we will never be able to pull forth the treads of brythonic practice that have remained with us through 5,000 years of spiritual development. Where I wish to look is at the spiritual practices and beliefs of the majority. The 98% who worked the land and to whom Christianity was the religion of the overlords, not their daily practice. The 'common' man continued to work with the land and its gods and spirits all through the christian period right up to the industrial revolution and the urbanization of the poor. You can see this in their songs, their festivals and their folk ways. Brython, Pict, Hibernian, Scot, Saecsen, Norse these peoples mingled folk traditions still exist. I feel it when I work with the land. I hear it from my ancestors, brython and norse both. I see it in the actions of my gods. To me this is a development of what I began when I wrote my essays on 'feral druidry' a decade ago. |
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Post by redraven on Jun 19, 2011 9:42:24 GMT -1
Where I wish to look is at the spiritual practices and beliefs of the majority. The 98% who worked the land and to whom Christianity was the religion of the overlords, not their daily practice. And this, for me, is a very important part. Because of the emphasis placed upon the political and religious aspects of the ruling classes at any one time in history, sourced and referenced through academic frameworks, we tend to believe that the rest of the population also carried these beliefs, either voluntarily or enforced upon them. To an extent that may be true, but I believe, much as has been stated in this quote, that the vast majority towed the line, but practiced differently in their own private lives. So aspects of Brythonic practice must have been there, hidden in folklore and myth, but to be able to identify such things, we need to establish what were the original beliefs and practices. And that is what and where I think we need to be at this moment in time. RR |
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Post by nellie on Jun 20, 2011 4:58:11 GMT -1
No offence taken RedRaven. What has been said makes sense - namely to take things slowly and thus do it properly. I'm always too eager Is that generally the long term plan for Brython though? |
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Post by redraven on Jun 20, 2011 18:38:35 GMT -1
Is that generally the long term plan for Brython though? I would say that would depend upon what we were aiming to do. This particular subject matter, to me, means that we have to build our baseline carefully, but I'm sure there are other aspects that we are already generally in agreement about and may not require that slow an approach. I think Craig's ideas are admirable aspirations at this minute in time, but we are moving and the amount of material now being placed on the new website over the short period of time since it's inception has created some further interest and interactivity. However, this being Brython, you may find activity peaks and troughs. RR |
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) The tools we are using are, to an extent, self taught, therefore we need to make sure we have got it right and concentrating on a smaller "sample" size, gives us the chance to modify and improve them.