Post by Francis on Feb 2, 2007 15:20:51 GMT -1
Hi Craig
Gay friend credentials noted - check!
I know I am the King of Cheese and Cliché!
"How dare the Catholic Church deny poor gays their human rights!" - it makes me want to spit! What bloody human rights? But that is another topic I'll be opening up when this has run its course.
look forward to that...
I am less concerned about the 'liberal urbanites' than I am about the neocon centre of power in New Labour. Seldom has a modern British Government had so many overtly religious cabinet ministers. One even wears the Cilice.
Yes I phrased that badly - I believe you're right about the 'neocon centre of power in New Labour'. They get to take their agenda forwards though, because of the support they get from an often unthinkingly (reflexively?) liberal, urban majority who ever more are living in a sort of coseted virtual world. New Labour gets its mandate to take forward its sinister agenda from the support it gets from a liberally minded majority who seem to perceive the motivation for what's really happening as something entirely different.
Is it cowardice or the cynical exploitation of fear we are facing here?
A cynical exploitation of the fear they (heart of this government) didn't sow but certainly nurtured, and grew as carefully as they could- but in terms of the way people in our society in general have let this happen, then I would say yes cowardice.
Cowardice both in action and words, and for many more a lower sort of cowardice that is thought cowardice. If I were a kinder person I'd only accuse folk of being ostriches - but I really think its the sort of cowardice of people who really don't want to think about what the future could really hold.
Ah, but what is prejudice? Is it merely an irrational fear of that which you do not understand? Or do the roots of many of today's prejudices have more rational roots, long lost and become irrelevant? Such as the Scot's disdain for the English... based on real historical acts of unrelenting persecution, now no longer relevant - but maintained to feed the political ambitions of a few - eh President Alex Salmond - the would-be new Bruce?
I think the hardest question you've posed. Prejudice is certainly all those things - And idiots like Alex Salmond should look at the Balkan states and think long and hard about what fruit their self-serving actions may lead to many decades down the line.
Prejudice I think can't be thought of in absolute terms-is it always bad? It isn't always avoidable. It's a spectrum that's inevitably bound both culturally, as well as personally. Interaction with people you don't know well is inevitably coloured by your experience of people you initially perceive as similar. Most of this is at a subconscious level- its not deliberate or necessarily undesirable, it is just how human perception works.
How you act with this 'pre-judgement' at a conscious level is what matters – to prevent it manifesting as inappropriate discrimination. (Can I get away with the word inappropriate?).
Of course if you allow the above then we're still left with the question of discrimination.
So when are we coming up to your woods to chat then? Some of us are pretty close you know...?
You’re always welcome I’d look forward to showing you (and whoever else here who wanted to come) around. Particularly the old watch tower of Caer Olau - now deep in the woods but once a fire beacon tower for Caer Dathyl where Math held court.
Well that’s just to try and tempt you here! But I feel that it was!- it’s in sight of Caer Dathyl (Pen y Gaer) on the other side of the valley and looks over the Hiraethlyn beyond to a similar ‘beacon’ site and so on.
Of course there’s the wood itself but why that’s special is harder to describe.
Feel free to suggest a time!
Bendithion
Stephen
craig said:
Gay friend credentials noted - check!
I know I am the King of Cheese and Cliché!
craig said:
"How dare the Catholic Church deny poor gays their human rights!" - it makes me want to spit! What bloody human rights? But that is another topic I'll be opening up when this has run its course.
look forward to that...
craig said:
I am less concerned about the 'liberal urbanites' than I am about the neocon centre of power in New Labour. Seldom has a modern British Government had so many overtly religious cabinet ministers. One even wears the Cilice.
Yes I phrased that badly - I believe you're right about the 'neocon centre of power in New Labour'. They get to take their agenda forwards though, because of the support they get from an often unthinkingly (reflexively?) liberal, urban majority who ever more are living in a sort of coseted virtual world. New Labour gets its mandate to take forward its sinister agenda from the support it gets from a liberally minded majority who seem to perceive the motivation for what's really happening as something entirely different.
craig said:
Is it cowardice or the cynical exploitation of fear we are facing here?
A cynical exploitation of the fear they (heart of this government) didn't sow but certainly nurtured, and grew as carefully as they could- but in terms of the way people in our society in general have let this happen, then I would say yes cowardice.
Cowardice both in action and words, and for many more a lower sort of cowardice that is thought cowardice. If I were a kinder person I'd only accuse folk of being ostriches - but I really think its the sort of cowardice of people who really don't want to think about what the future could really hold.
craig said:
Ah, but what is prejudice? Is it merely an irrational fear of that which you do not understand? Or do the roots of many of today's prejudices have more rational roots, long lost and become irrelevant? Such as the Scot's disdain for the English... based on real historical acts of unrelenting persecution, now no longer relevant - but maintained to feed the political ambitions of a few - eh President Alex Salmond - the would-be new Bruce?
I think the hardest question you've posed. Prejudice is certainly all those things - And idiots like Alex Salmond should look at the Balkan states and think long and hard about what fruit their self-serving actions may lead to many decades down the line.
Prejudice I think can't be thought of in absolute terms-is it always bad? It isn't always avoidable. It's a spectrum that's inevitably bound both culturally, as well as personally. Interaction with people you don't know well is inevitably coloured by your experience of people you initially perceive as similar. Most of this is at a subconscious level- its not deliberate or necessarily undesirable, it is just how human perception works.
How you act with this 'pre-judgement' at a conscious level is what matters – to prevent it manifesting as inappropriate discrimination. (Can I get away with the word inappropriate?).
Of course if you allow the above then we're still left with the question of discrimination.
craig said:
So when are we coming up to your woods to chat then? Some of us are pretty close you know...?
You’re always welcome I’d look forward to showing you (and whoever else here who wanted to come) around. Particularly the old watch tower of Caer Olau - now deep in the woods but once a fire beacon tower for Caer Dathyl where Math held court.
Well that’s just to try and tempt you here! But I feel that it was!- it’s in sight of Caer Dathyl (Pen y Gaer) on the other side of the valley and looks over the Hiraethlyn beyond to a similar ‘beacon’ site and so on.
Of course there’s the wood itself but why that’s special is harder to describe.
Feel free to suggest a time!
Bendithion
Stephen
