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Post by jez on Oct 13, 2008 14:18:34 GMT -1
whilst the heathen model is excellent and provides a great amount of inspiration, i think we should be cautious about wholesale transplantation of thier ideas and concepts, we dont neccessarily need to have something ideantical but brythonic, we might also need our own terms and ideas which they dont have. I don't think the model is actually 'heathen' as in the Scandiwegilandics and the AS peoples don't have a monolpoly on any of it - it is simply that there has been a lot of surviving sources which tell us that is what people around this part of the world did. The romans, the indians, the aborginal peoples of other places almost certainly did the same stuff - and almost certainly so did the peoples of this land. Ritual feasts, hospitality, song, story, history, dance (go look at Faroese dancing) et al - it's all just 'what folk do' and when those folk are Brythons, they will do it in honour of Brythonic deity, wight and ancestor, and in celebration of Brythonic namings, wedding, buryings... Yes, Brython needs to hunt out its own words - but the events and the way they were marked are probably the same the worlds over, with minor regional specialities. -- Jez
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 13, 2008 16:49:59 GMT -1
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 13, 2008 19:21:03 GMT -1
What does it say? there is no translation into english.
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 13, 2008 19:34:20 GMT -1
it's various chants for use in druidry, calling the ancestors, the spirit of the land, the elements, the awen.
That aside, He/she uses defod as the word for ritual. Which is fine, since that IS the word for ritual lol. But I just pointed it out because Lee said it has no previous associations, whereas it is obviously being used by some people. Doesn't mean we couldn't or shouldn't use it though.
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Post by megli on Oct 13, 2008 21:25:20 GMT -1
It's by Kris I believe (who is a member of CF).
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Post by megli on Oct 13, 2008 21:32:30 GMT -1
Tylwyth Brython?
Remember that Brython is singular in modern Welsh; Tylwyth y Brythoniaid, 'the people of the Britons' (TULL-oo-ith uh bruth-ON-ee-ide) might be better. TULL rhymes with 'cull', BRUTH has the same vowel as 'rough'.
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Post by littleraven on Oct 13, 2008 22:34:13 GMT -1
Tylwyth Brython?Remember that Brython is singular in modern Welsh; Tylwyth y Brythoniaid, 'the people of the Britons' (TULL-oo-ith uh bruth-ON-ee-ide) might be better. TULL rhymes with 'cull', BRUTH has the same vowel as 'rough'. The very earliest of this concept was known as 'Cylch Brythoniaid' for that very reason. Brython is intended to represent a statement of personal identity, yet also a common purpose. In fact much the same way as Heathen can represent the person or the belief. Whilst the group/concept may be known as Brython, I don't think that's enough for naming of the Tylwyth. I would suggest that when we come together we do so under a greater, common umbrella and name ourselves in the fashion of the ancient tribes. May I make a suggestion? Tylwyth Rigantona. She has ben associated with Brython from the start, to the point of being considered a patron. She is the mother of the herd, the community, and represents the sovreignty we look to reclaim.
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Post by megli on Oct 14, 2008 5:53:24 GMT -1
That's great! (But you're pairing a Welsh world with a British one - shall I try and find out the British form of tylwyth? My instinct says something like *Tolokt- but something like *tolettos (long -e-) might also be possible, which is beginning to look unfortunate
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Post by Craig on Oct 14, 2008 6:07:51 GMT -1
Tylwyth Brython?Remember that Brython is singular in modern Welsh; Tylwyth y Brythoniaid, 'the people of the Britons' (TULL-oo-ith uh bruth-ON-ee-ide) might be better. TULL rhymes with 'cull', BRUTH has the same vowel as 'rough'. Surely, using my schoolboy welsh, shouldn't that be 'pobl-y-brythoniaid'?
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Post by Craig on Oct 14, 2008 6:11:40 GMT -1
May I make a suggestion? Tylwyth Rigantona. She has been associated with Brython from the start, to the point of being considered a patron. She is the mother of the herd, the community, and represents the sovreignty we look to reclaim. Hmm... Rigatona - who she? I don't actually remember discussing that particular goddess during the time we formed Brython, but I do have regular senior moments. I am loathe to place any single deity in such a position, especially while we are justy beginning to determine which gods actually 'belong to' the peoples of Britain.
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Post by jez on Oct 14, 2008 6:40:57 GMT -1
At the discussion at Flag Fen, She was there. And many of the people there had heard Her, though perhaps under different names.
But the Grey Mare is in many of the lives of the people of this new 'tribe' and She is in the lives of many who have met Her in different places. I am myself a member of an interfaith camp-based national community of around 200 people who are inspired by and honour Her under the names/titles of Epona and Grey Mare. Whether She accepts the name/title of Rigantona, I do not personally know, but I am willing to take the UPG and SPG of those I trust, such as Blackbird and Little Raven, that it is so.
--
Jez
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Post by megli on Oct 14, 2008 8:04:43 GMT -1
'pobl' would be good as well Craig: but 'tylwyth' implies (extended) family, kindred, kinfolk, tribe, lineage, retinue, followers etc as well though.
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Post by Lee on Oct 14, 2008 8:05:29 GMT -1
May I make a suggestion? Tylwyth Rigantona. yes. indeed. definately. when it was mentioned at flag fen my 'gut' sat bolt upright and gave me a slap across the face. can i also suggest, when this is crystalised - such as the british form of tylwyth - it is also added to the glossary thread of your LR. lots of new and newish terms are being thrown into the mix and i for one am hopelessy forgetful. having some form of reminder is gonna be needed in the very short term.
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 14, 2008 8:50:14 GMT -1
Are we using just brythonic words or a mixture of brython and welsh?
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Post by littleraven on Oct 14, 2008 8:53:19 GMT -1
Rigantona/Rhinannon, Epona, the Grey Mare. It's why we discussed the white horse as a symbol/banner. The archetypal symbol of sovreignty in a warrior society, the mount of the warriors, the Lady of the Herd.
There is another tutelary Lady whose presence is felt, but we need to form our Aelwyd before we can dedicate it. Whilst the Mare may guard the Dun, there are others for the houses within.
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Post by Craig on Oct 14, 2008 11:06:21 GMT -1
'pobl' would be good as well Craig: but 'tylwyth' implies (extended) family, kindred, kinfolk, tribe, lineage, retinue, followers etc as well though. Ok, I'll buy that My only problem with 'tylwyth' is a negative association with the twitchy-teg...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 11:14:09 GMT -1
as to biggie festivals - currently im thinking on the matter. i mean, what exactly are we celebrating on those dates? to many of us the harvest is largely irrelevant - to a few it is still a huge matter. my current persoanl practice doesnt really involve much at a couple fo the festivals and far more emphasis on others. in those cases, Gwyl works well i think. I don't celebrate all the festivals either, usually I celebrate those that are meaningful to me every year and those that represent aspects of my own life I want to celebrate. I do celebrate the Harvest festival, as a reminder to look at what I have and remember that for others preparing for Winter isn't full of excitement and looking forward to mulled wine and gatherings with dear friends and loved ones. So, although the harvest itself might not have much meaning for me, living in a town far removed from the gathering of the crops etc ... it's a time when I think about the extra strain on homeless hostels in the Winter and gather what food and drink I can spare. Every year Dylan's school collects donations of food and drink for a local teenage hostel and putting together donations is, in a sense, an important ritual for me because back in my teens I was one of those kids that needed a roof over their head. Charity's always been an important thing in our family too, so it's meaningful to see those practices being taken up by the next generation and the family honouring the lessons our ancestors taught in their lifetimes and handing them down. It's also important, I think, in the current climate to consider what the harvest means on a more global scale. With food prices rising and millions facing the threat of starvation it seems even more important to take the time to think about how lucky we are to be able to feed ourselves and our families and consider sharing our good fortune with those that are less fortunate. Not only in the sense of giving so others may eat, but in sharing our knowledge on how to manage through hard times with those that are struggling, so that we're really serving our community.
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Post by Tegernacus on Oct 14, 2008 11:35:09 GMT -1
you're talking about caring and sharing with the tribe, looking out for one another... that's downright un-Christian...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 11:41:21 GMT -1
you're talking about caring and sharing with the tribe, looking out for one another... that's downright un-Christian... LOL ;D
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