The role of fertility

[aelfarh]

Of course I will not think less of an adopted child, actually is in my plans to adopt one in the future, for other reasons not the fertility topic dicussed here. How ever, I think that focusing on the topic itself it could be a difference between rise a child and give life to one.

Also, I was wondering, Brighid is known as the patron of poets and artists, and at the same time she has a powerful role on fertility. Is it a mere coincidence or is there a link we are dismissing here?

[stefan]

Hmmm, for me this all goes very deep indeed, the ancient concepts of religion still having a direct influence today. The evolution of the dying and rising vegetation/sun god man can still be traced in the myth of its final incarnation, Jesus Christ. The dying and rising god man of the classical world was linked both to the vegetation cycle of the seasons and to the human life journey. The trails and tribulations of the solar hero. We can see that JC is somewhat removed from the ancient vegetation function, so we are already seeing some distancing from nature 2000 years ago, but the basic framework and its relation to human wisdom teachings remain. New concepts being grafted on to the original concept. A concept based on ariculture and fertility.

Part of the reason for paganism resurfacing is a desire to re-connect to nature, so the original concepts of the dying and rising god man of nature once again become relevent. The dying and rising is directly related to sacrifice. The old mundane self dies, (sacrificed) the higher spiritual self rises. This concept was linked to the suns dayly and yearly cycle. This evolution of theology is intrinsically linked to fertility. That which is fertile in every sense being supported over that which is barren.

[Francis]

Hi Stefan

Have you read Adrian Bailey's "The caves of the sun" ? I think it might appeal to you.

It makes a pleasant change to see the legends of Jesus Christ being brought in to disscussion without hysteria! Their affect on our land and its peoples over the last couple of thousand years can't be ignored by rational folk. Yes there was coercion, but undeniably there was resonance too - I wonder why?

As Craig says it's all about layers.

[clare]

There's a difference between agricultural and pre-agricultural societies. As soon as people settle down they can breed more, they have more possessions, they become more isolated into smaller family units in a larger community rather than small tribal units of about 10ish. The relationship with the natural world is different. Hunting a large, potentially dangerous animal is a different activity to growing crops, not least because you may have to follow the prey as they migrate. Both are important but different. I've more resonance with hunter-gatherer structures than agricultural structures.

[Lee]

it is nice to see someone (Francis) making a point that has been bubbling about in me for years - that of fertility being about babies rather than painting.

i guess the role of feretility is one of things that just doesnt 'fit' for many pagan these days seeing as most of us are rather separated from the land and its cycles in a way our ancestors would and in fact could, not be.

the issue of the harvest and of fertility are tough ones. they arent something i think i know my place in right now. it is made tougher because i am likely not to have children in the conventional sense, as much as it is considered decidedly un-PC to say it, Francis has a point about same sex couples too - they arent the same as heterosexual couples. BUT being different doesnt make one better or worse or of less worth than the other.

[stefan]

Hi Francis

No, have not read Cave's of the Sun, sounds very interesting.

Christianity in many ways is very Pagan. He is a dying and rising sacrificed god man linked to the stations of the sun after all. But I think the original thread was about fertility within religious theology if I remember correctly? I guess the broader thread about children, art etc is a conversation anyone could have with no interest in ancient religion whatsoever, so will not contribute on that.

Fertility is also in a way connected to ancient art form. We see this right across the ancient world with paintings of fertility symbolism. I personally like to work with red ochre, (blood of the mother). I break it up from rock form in a ritualistic way and paint megalithic designs on rocks. Its often a wonderful thing to do on a long walk when I stop to rest for a while. Nice to also muse what other walkers will make of it on some desolate rock in the middle of no'where. I've spent a lot of time studying megalithic art in order to know exactly what it is I'm doing and why. But fertility again is intrinsic to this practice and feels like a good way of connecting to the ancestors. Oh yes I carved the odd phallus in my time as well.