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Post by redraven on Jan 3, 2009 9:09:19 GMT -1
It is said that symbolism is the language by which the Gods speak to us, but those symbols originate from without and we find the meaning. When we create a system we invent the meaning, and this allows us to speak to the unconcious mind within, beyond language and returning to symbolism. I could invent a system tonight where my teapot is the altar, the kitchen is the temple and the God is named the 'Twining'. If I ascribe meaning to this and pass it to others those meanings will allow those others to experience things they may consider 'spiritual' but originate in the pscychological. For those ordinary people the end result may be utterly fulfilling, but it's not a connection to the Gods, it's a connection to the mind. Which, ultimately, may well be the whole purpose of this. The lack of referral to deity suggests to me that that it is the process that is the central role of the system. When you take into consideration our estimated time of writing, an era when the straight jacket of Xtianity was finally being loosened publically for the first time in hundreds of years, who is to say what sort of reaction occurred in peoples perceptions? I think that this is just that, an example of "counter reaction" to the rigidly enforced religious practices of the day, and as such, you have to deal with it using that frame of reference. Yes it does make a claim, it says it originates Pre-Roman yet then claims it can't be proven. Going on to describe the history of the order and how it addressed the coming of the Romans is a rather strong implication. If you can't make a claim to some form of historical relevance, then your whole basis for religious relevance falls at it's first hurdle. I see no difference here to the ancestral line of heritage claimed by English kings to Arthur, except they got away with it! RR How does one formally greet the stirrer of the great Twinings?
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Post by megli on Jan 3, 2009 9:52:48 GMT -1
Anyone who's read a few esoteric books - the was that nice series with the text and then lots of pictures that came out a few decades back - and some ross nicholls could have faked this with consumate ease five years ago, it doesn't have to be 19th century. The bit that cracks me up most are the cod celtic words, in a jumble of languages, almost always bizarrely misspelled.
Ahem. [Pours glass] - apostrophe mistakes for verisimilitude
THE ORDER OF THE DRAGON-HORSE The ancient way of the Druids
'In the folds of Oxfordshire's hills and valleys lies a tremendous secret. Perhaps you have seen the great white horse cut into the chalk at Uffington in Berkshire; perhaps it has called deeply to your soul, seeming to prance then in your dreams, mane running like white waters on a moonlit night. Perhaps it has spoken to you - whispers, only faint voices, but there - of the mysteries of our ancestors and their magick. Come, it seems to say, come...
Strange and unlikely as it may seem on our hectic modern world, it is in the surroundings of this ancient and sacred figure that the authentic teachings of our druid ancestors have lived on, preserved by a tiny clan to this day. It is this tradition that I, as a third-level initiate, have for the first time got the permission of the clan elders to publish, and which I set before you here in all its truth and beauty. By all the gods, by the Lady Blodeugerd and the Lord Gwendunacht, may it touch your soul as it has touched mine, deeply, with the dragon-energies of this, our sacred and beautiful Isle.
* * *
The clan names it's ways the rites of the Order of the Dragon-Horse, or in the Old Celtic language, Ordd an Cefyll-Dreig. Our ceremonials and symbolism are ancient; though of course this cannot be verified by the crude techniques of scholars, we of the Ordd know in our hearts, from the voices of the wind in the willows, that great power is stored in this sacred lore. It is the true teaching of the ancient druids, before they were stamped out in England by the cruel might of the Christians. Stamped out, that is, everywhere but in this fold of downland by the Ridgeway, that ancient track that snakes its way towards Avebury.
Before we go any further, it is time for you to learn something of our most basic concepts - but by experience, not by reading. Look through the exercise below....'
and so on. 'We can learn later on of the three grades of Bhairdd, Ovalt and Drwydd, and of the mysteries of circle-casting, and of the wizard Gwydion who first placed his golden harness upon the Sun-Serpent and mounted up into the stars.'
CONTENT'S
1: The Three Worlds of Stars, Circling Sea, and Land
2: The sacred energy of nerth and the Cosmic Nut
3: The Dragon-Horse and Her power
4: Riding the Dragon-Horse - Magick in the Ordd an Ceffyl-Dreic
5: The Three Gates of Life and Death: Bhairdd, Ovalt and Drwydd and Initiation
[jaded look]
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Post by redraven on Jan 3, 2009 11:04:59 GMT -1
Honestly, the cynicism of the youth of today!
RR
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Post by Lee on Jan 3, 2009 11:41:48 GMT -1
more megli, more!
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Post by megli on Jan 3, 2009 11:59:41 GMT -1
The Cosmic Nut is in many ways the secret heart of the Mysteries. It exists in several dimensions or senses at one and the same time. It is profoundly mysterious and cannot be approached but with the greatest reverence. Those who are scornful will never for a single second come to appreciate its deep power and they will as a result close themselves off forever from the Mysteries of the Order of the Dragon-Horse. At the heart of the earth, at the roots of that cosmic tree whose sacred branches bring life into the world and all our joy, lies the Cosmic Nut. It is the core of the land's dreaming self, with images like multicoloured crystals. It dreams of earth again radiant and unspoiled, and the green dragon-fire once more flowing through the land for health and life, directed by the wise magick of the Drwydon. This sacred kernel, this mysterious centre, is the source of nerth and of all magick. At the same time, it is also a nut ceaselessly balanced upon the edge of the Well of Segias in the Otherworld, that is, on that strange borderland between the Seen and the Unseen, where the Ovalts who are trained as Edgewalkers may travel at will. Finally, the Cosmic Nut exists deep in the heart of the Drwyd, where it acts as a source of wisdom and the focus for the flow of nerth into the soul. As one of the ancient Celtic triads of the Order runs: Three are the nuts and yet one nut which sprout within the dragon's scales. Nut of the well-lip, nut of the inner heart and the earth-nut which shall never fail.Exercise 31: Awakening your Inner NutStand with your legs apart, in some wild and sacred place. (In a pinch, your back garden or a local park will serve.) It is traditional in the Order, as we have seen, for the postulant to first awaken the Inner Nut whilst standing on the Eye of the white horse of Uffington, where the dragon energies are at their most strong. But wherever you are, follow this meditation to awaken the Inner Nut. Imagine beneath your feet a core of green and gold pulsing energy at the heart of the earth. Feel its fires rising - spreading through the earth like a shoot struggling to reach the light through through the fallen leaves of the forest floor. Two such shoots are directly beneath your feet, where you stand. Breathe deeply and say: Come, nutlight, shootlight, earthlight rising; green fire, gold fire, heart's fire shining!Imagine the tendrils of the Earth Nut snaking around your legs, reaching into your marrow, and rising up your body. You may begin to shake and tremble with the immense power of the energy. You may wish to chant an ancient Celtic mantra of the Order: clwt twt, clwt twt (pronounced 'cloot toot') It is traditional to pronounce both words of the mantra on the inbreath. If you feel lightheaded, be assured that this is the powerful energy of the mantra at work in you..... .....
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Post by Adam on Jan 3, 2009 12:07:50 GMT -1
<adam quickly cuts and pastes megli's posts... runs across to lulu.com and makes a fortune>
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Post by megli on Jan 3, 2009 12:15:56 GMT -1
OI! this is going to Capall Bann, I'll have you know! (Could I, do you think?)
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Post by littleraven on Jan 3, 2009 12:41:30 GMT -1
OI! this is going to Capall Bann, I'll have you know! (Could I, do you think?) Capall Bann is the epitomy of academic studiousness. Not for one second will your inventions get past their scrupulous peer-reviewing process. Tony Steele will not let you pass! You shall not pass!
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Post by megli on Jan 3, 2009 12:43:06 GMT -1
<spreads fiery wings and cracks whip>
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Post by Lee on Jan 3, 2009 15:47:41 GMT -1
Tony Steele will not let you pass! You shall not pass! is tony steele the south wales trad welsh witchcraft guy? you know, the homophobic, sexist, bigot who claims some ancient lineage and yet its a rip off of wicca?
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Post by clare on Jan 3, 2009 17:02:38 GMT -1
The Cosmic Nut is in many ways the secret heart of the Mysteries. It exists in several dimensions or senses at one and the same time. It is profoundly mysterious and cannot be approached but with the greatest reverence. Those who are scornful will never for a single second come to appreciate its deep power and they will as a result close themselves off forever from the Mysteries of the Order of the Dragon-Horse. Dear Gods! Yes, send it to Thorsons or whichever of the many publishers continue to churn out this stuff and get yourself on the Druid-go-round. More than money, you'll be *validated*! Excellent stuff Megli, indistinguishable from all the rest. Do you think they're taking the micky too?
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Post by megli on Jan 3, 2009 17:36:56 GMT -1
indistinguishable from all the rest. Do you think they're taking the micky too? Yes, in the case of the Pendragon book, I honestly do think it's a hoax somewhere along the line. As the foregoing has shown it really is like taking candy from a baby.
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Post by littleraven on Jan 3, 2009 20:25:42 GMT -1
Tony Steele will not let you pass! You shall not pass! is tony steele the south wales trad welsh witchcraft guy? you know, the homophobic, sexist, bigot who claims some ancient lineage and yet its a rip off of wicca? No, Tony Steele claims to have knowledge of an ancient lineage of water witches from the East Anglian fens. East Anglia is *very* trendy for witchy types. So who's this one then?
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Post by megli on Jan 3, 2009 20:51:52 GMT -1
East Anglia is *very* trendy for witchy types. Very flet, Norfolk.
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Post by Lee on Jan 3, 2009 21:57:20 GMT -1
i must be thinking of ian steele then. i know of tony. heard lots of bad stuff about him... rumour has it, he is total cock. my experience of him has been edging towards the aforementioned description being accurate.
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Post by Adam on Jan 4, 2009 19:23:06 GMT -1
Why is this, as an invention, any different from any of the other neo-pagan claptrap? Invention is invention. There is absolutely no reason why this won't work, as indeed can any other invented system work for people who are receptive to it. The difference is what it works *on*, whether it be external or internal. This is a timely point for me, because I've been pondering this internal and external symbolic relationship... I seem to have made significantly more "inner progress" for want of a better term since junking *any* system that attempted to impose an interpretation on the source and nature of communications received from what appear to be external sources (i.e some spirit related source rather than an inner psychological source). That said, I think there is room for a human created system if one is absolutely clear what it is working on, i.e. working on an inner level in order to prepare one effectively for exposure to external forces and communications. But I suspect it is crucial to keep the two clearly delineated.
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Post by stefan on Jan 27, 2009 10:50:10 GMT -1
The term hoax within the context of the modern Druid movement is an interesting one to debate. The entire modern Druid movement is a hoax, created by people with a specific needs/desires. Thus various people create various fantasies which have a lesser or greater appeal to the wider population of the movement.
For me personally the Pendragon hoax is more intelligent and multi layered than any other I have yet encountered and seems to be of a standard equal to the fantasies of the Golden Dawn, Servants of the Light, Thelema, Wicca etc.
The fantasies of BDO, TDN and OBOD do not even scratch the surface of the Pendragon fantasy in my humble opinion. Their creative abilities and spiritual insight seem like that of a child's compared to the Pendragon author.
Therefore it is a fantasy that commands my respect when I compare it to all the other runners on the track that I'm aware of.
I guess you have two choices re Druidry. Create your own fantasy, or conform to someone else's. A sincerely and painstakingly researched historical direction, will ultimately merely create yet another fantasy. I personally feel it would be arrogant in the extreme to conclude otherwise.
People here like anywhere else within the cosmology of Native British Tradition have specific needs and desires, these will determine your illusion. Your joy and your frustration. Your journey upon the soul ladder to somewhere or other.
Nothing is achieved without sacrifice. It's good to be back. Stefan
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Post by Tegernacus on Jan 27, 2009 11:50:55 GMT -1
yeah, but if you look at it like that, EVERY religion is a hoax, created by people with specific needs/desires.
I have no problem with this book, or people who get something out of it. But to claim it as "ancient blah blah" is fraud.
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Post by stefan on Jan 28, 2009 17:10:03 GMT -1
Yes to a certain extent I do believe all religions are a fraud on one level. Its interesting to look at the deceit. The Christian deceit being one of the greatest of all time and indeed one of the most successful.
But if I could bring it back to need and desire. I have begun to accept that historical authenticity is a bit like chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. An admirable pursuit and one that should never be forsaken or without doubt the hippies will have won the day.
However, take for example Megli's wonderful illustration. If he had actually written the Pendragon book and he also practiced what he preached, meaning he did use the skills and disciplines and it was not just a theory in his head. Then I would look to him as my teacher. Why? Because I feel whoever wrote it holds greater knowledge than the Druidic teachers of today.
You may all need as high a standard from a teacher that I do. I require them to know more than me and be more able than me, thus they earn the status to command my respect and I become willing to drink from their fountain of knowledge. I have not yet met anyone deserving that status. I think most people here feel the same. Hence we do not belong to another Order, but come here as equals.
The Pendragon Order does not meet peoples need and desire for historical authenticity. But for me it ticks every other box and because of its quality I am able to forgive the lie, because religions across the world are full of lies. If you can see them, you can then decide whether or not to accept them. The Pendragon lie relates to seeking credibility, but the content speaks for itself. And no Druid teacher today could equal such a content within their own teaching systems.
Megli's little example was indeed very intelligent, but not his own idea. It does not contain the faculty X. No doubt he could create another, and promote it by another form of subterfuge, but no doubt feels that would not be an honorable thing to do. The true origin of the Pendragon teachings still remain in question. But I know the publisher at Thoth publications as a personal friend. He has forgotten more than I will ever know and swears that its very old. I have read it in manuscript form, and also know he has some other material which he would have published if the first book had been a financial success. He's the kind of guy with original Isreal Regardie manuscripts lying around in carrier bags on his office floor. Therefore if it is a complete hoax, then I have been lied to by someone I hold in the greatest respect. I have looked him straight in the eye and asked is this book a load of bollocks, he assures me it is not.
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