Circular Graveyards

[Deleted]

Hello,

Circular Graveyards

This is something I do NOT know about.

I have heard that Christian churches were built on heathen lands and this may originally have been a circular graveyard indicating a heathen origin and in historical terms an indicator of an early settlement.

The trouble is some of the sites of circular graveyards are not proven. There is meant to be a circular graveyard on the site of the Saxon St. Nicolas Church, Old Shoreham, West Sussex, but I am not so sure of the accuracy of this fact/rumour.

There are Heathen Burial grounds written on the OS map in Steyning, West Sussex.

Cheers

Andy Horton
[e-mail]
History of Shoreham
www.glaucus.org.uk/History.htm
....

[littleraven]

Feb 17, 2009 18:21:38 GMT -1 @perseus said:

Hello,

Circular Graveyards

This is something I do NOT know about.

I have heard that Christian churches were built on heathen lands and this may originally have been a circular graveyard indicating a heathen origin and in historical terms an indicator of an early settlement.

The trouble is some of the sites of circular graveyards are not proven. There is meant to be a circular graveyard on the site of the Saxon St. Nicolas Church, Old Shoreham, West Sussex, but I am not so sure of the accuracy of this fact/rumour.

There are Heathen Burial grounds written on the OS map in Steyning, West Sussex.

Cheers

Andy Horton
[e-mail]
History of Shoreham
www.glaucus.org.uk/History.htm
....

Do you mean heathen in the common useage, which would essentially be interchangeable with pagan, or are you referring specifically to Germanic sites? I ask becasue here 'Heathen' has a very specific meaning.

[Deleted]

I suspected that heathen and pagan were not interchangeable. You will have to enlighten me.

If I remember rightly pagan was from the Latin and heathen was OE. I just preferred the OE one. Also, because "Heathen Burial Grounds" was written on the modern OS map. Also, for other ancient Welsh-Saxon political reasons, heath referring to common land, whilst the Romans enclosed the land and lived in towns. My intuition opreferred the word "heathen". The etymon might be heath. I have not checked.

[Tegernacus]

In a study done by the Gwent Archaeological trust, most of the early church/llan sites (recorded via charters etc) have a circular or semi-circular boundry, a lot of which can still be seen today.

Now, I don't know whether the heathen Saxons, on their conversion to Christianity, would have followed a similar tradition. I would be interested to know that too. Certainly the Cymric peoples did.

--

re: heathen and pagan. To a modern understanding, in the context we (and most modern pagans and historians use them):

pagan = non-Christians
Heathen = Saxon/Germanic pagans
Brythonic = pre-Saxon pagans (aka "Celts")

it's not as black-and-white as that though. The burial-grounds of the Britons were used as Saxon burial grounds when they came in. So you could see a circular "saxon burial ground" that was infact just taken over by them. Hard to prove without excavation and dna/carbon dating.

[Deleted]

I have put Heathens on another thread if this is OK. It might drift off-topic being a Saxon OE word.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2009 18:21:38 GMT -1 @perseus said:

Hello,

Circular Graveyards

This is something I do NOT know about.

I have heard that Christian churches were built on heathen lands and this may originally have been a circular graveyard indicating a heathen origin and in historical terms an indicator of an early settlement.

The trouble is some of the sites of circular graveyards are not proven. There is meant to be a circular graveyard on the site of the Saxon St. Nicolas Church, Old Shoreham, West Sussex, but I am not so sure of the accuracy of this fact/rumour.

There are Heathen Burial grounds written on the OS map in Steyning, West Sussex.

Cheers

Andy Horton
[e-mail]
History of Shoreham
www.glaucus.org.uk/History.htm
....

Ok so I see this is an old thread and forgive me if the issue has been addressed in another thread but you may well wish to check out Pennant Melangell, Llangynog, Powys.

The Church, which has the legend of Melangell the Patron Saint of Hare's attracted to it, is built within a bronze age henge according to an archaeological dig there some years ago.

The stones within the Lytch gate, originally built in the 16thC (if memory serves me...) *could* have come from the henge.

Part of the Church was litterally falling down and as it had to be rebuilt a dig was under taken, proving the site had been used as a burial place into pre-Christianity.

Indeed the legend of Melangell herself, suggests it may have Celtic origins - shapeshifting and all hardly being know with in the Christianity of the time! But as of the time of writing, no documented evidence has been found to support this.

The Yew tree's there are ancient and probably 2000 years old.

It is a beautiful place which I have visited many times - in addtion to this, I've walked both to the Holy Well above the Church and to the head of the valley which has the most beautiful waterfall! I can therefore attest to the circular nature of the grave yard and the peace and tranquility of the place.

As an aside, in the car park is a slight depression, of a circular nature - it's the ghostly remnant of a cock fighting pit!

Links:http://www.st-melangell.org.uk/English/Church/stmelangellchurch.htm

www.cpat.org.uk/news/oldnews/cfile1.htm

Proof positive that the early Church did indeed build on Sacred Sites.

[Heron]

Yes I did the walk up the valley to the church and can attest that its a powerful place. One of the few christian churches I have felt is possible to make a dedication in. Melangell herself is also significant for me - and seems in some ways kin to Brigid, certainly she contains an ethos of protection. Perhaps also once a hare goddess?

[Deleted]

Yes - I think there is a strong connection with the past there Heron - not just to the Christian past either as you say - I've often left healing requests at the Shrine and even attended a service there - the Vicar is a lovely woman; fitting for her to be there amongst the icons of all those hares too.

Another circular Church wall can be found in Guildsfield, near Welshpool - it is unusual as you can still get all around the perimeter, upon which are planted 22 yew trees...

[Heron]

Jun 13, 2011 17:31:24 GMT -1 @cymraes said:

Yes - I think there is a strong connection with the past there Heron - not just to the Christian past either as you say - I've often left healing requests at the Shrine and even attended a service there - the Vicar is a lovely woman; fitting for her to be there amongst the icons of all those hares too.

Another circular Church wall can be found in Guildsfield, near Welshpool - it is unusual as you can still get all around the perimeter, upon which are planted 22 yew trees...

Just up the road from me, at Ysbyty Cynfyn where the River Rheidol drops into a dramatic gorge, there is a small church with standing stones incorporated into the church wall. Pic : www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=43829

It has been supposed that the church was built inside a stone circle. A view that was dismissed by archaeologists who found the remains of an older circular wall just outside the boundaries of the present wall. That doesn't seem to 'disprove' much!

Just across the river over the 'Parson's Bridge' there is a stone circle which local legend in the 19th century held was a meeting place for fairies at Full Moon. It is, in fact, the eroded remains of a Bronze Age burial chamber.

Neither of these places are prominently signposted or much visited and the latter is rather difficult to get to. But they are favourite haunts of mine.