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Lydney
Aug 2, 2009 11:29:55 GMT -1
Post by Heron on Aug 2, 2009 11:29:55 GMT -1
I tried to visit the temple of Nodens in Lydney recently but the private estate on which it is situated is only open to the public at certain times of year so I could net get in. Has anyone else been, and is it worth going back when they are open? I did, though, give some consideration to the suggestion that Nodens , via Lludd, gives Lydney its name and found myself doubting it. I've recorded my explorations of rivers in the Forest of Dean and the fact that there is a village called Lydbrook on the other side of the forest, in my blog here : gorsedd-arberth.blogspot.com/2009/08/well-at-woods-end.htmlif anyone is interested. But the construction of Lydney from Lludd seems more ingenious than probable to me on consideration. The alternative is that it comes from either the personal name Lida (Lida's Island or Lida's Meadow) or from lida (=sailor). Both of these derivations would be from Old English rather than Celtic. Or, as with Lydbrook on the other side of the forest, that it come from OE hlud ('loud') because the river rushes down the steep slope through the village to the Severn estuary here.
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Lydney
Aug 2, 2009 11:50:41 GMT -1
Post by megli on Aug 2, 2009 11:50:41 GMT -1
Makes sense to me! The alternation Nud-/Lud- wd have to be very early for Lydney to contain the Celtic theonym, and the vowel worries me slightly. Also, I'm made unsure by the -n-:
Nudont- (oblique stem of Nodons/Nudons)-->Ludont- by assimilation with following epithet Lamias Argantias, 'of the silver hand'--->Ludon(n) by assimilation of -nt- to n(n)---->Ludon(n) + A-S ey, 'island' --> Ludney via syncope of unstressed medial vowel; the -u- could be raised to -/i/- at a later date.
Hm. It's JUST possible but I'm doubtful: I think your suggestions are much more likely!
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Lydney
Aug 3, 2009 20:02:23 GMT -1
Post by Francis on Aug 3, 2009 20:02:23 GMT -1
Wouldn't it just be easier to ask an expert in this field such as the famous Vyvyan Ogma Wyverne!!! ;D
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Lydney
Aug 3, 2009 21:24:57 GMT -1
Post by Adam on Aug 3, 2009 21:24:57 GMT -1
The only thing I have to offer is that the market town of Olney (North Bucks) was always regarded by local historians (the one I knew was one George Osbourne) as being derived from "Olla's Island", Olla being the personal name (possibly of local chieftan) and dating from pre-seventh century old english... But this was from my childhood. So treat cum grano salis.
<edit> Found this... "In 979AD the name was Ollanege, thought to mean Olla's Island"... is there any record of Lydney being recorded as Liddnege or some similar?
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Lydney
Aug 3, 2009 21:42:40 GMT -1
Post by megli on Aug 3, 2009 21:42:40 GMT -1
Wouldn't it just be easier to ask an expert in this field such as the famous Vyvyan Ogma Wyverne!!! ;D I'd rather have two bloody stumps!
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Lydney
Aug 3, 2009 21:44:07 GMT -1
Post by megli on Aug 3, 2009 21:44:07 GMT -1
<edit> Found this... "In 979AD the name was Ollanege, thought to mean Olla's Island"... is there any record of Lydney being recorded as Liddnege or some similar? Not that I know of, but that wd make excellent sense and looks plausible.
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Lydney
Aug 4, 2009 18:32:32 GMT -1
Post by Heron on Aug 4, 2009 18:32:32 GMT -1
The only thing I have to offer is that the market town of Olney (North Bucks) was always regarded by local historians (the one I knew was one George Osbourne) as being derived from "Olla's Island", Olla being the personal name (possibly of local chieftan) and dating from pre-seventh century old english... But this was from my childhood. So treat cum grano salis. <edit> Found this... "In 979AD the name was Ollanege, thought to mean Olla's Island"... is there any record of Lydney being recorded as Liddnege or some similar? I don't know if it has actually been recorded but the suggested etymology following the identification of the suffix 'ey' as 'island or watery place' is the constructed form 'Lideneg > Ledenei. OE lida or pers. name (genitive -n) + ēg. So your parallel seems appropriate Adam. By the way, the connection between Nodens and Nuada and also Lludd was apparently first made by a very young JRR Tolkien in 1928 when he joined Sir Mortimer Wheeler in a dig at the Roman site in Lydney and contributed to the write-up. I don't know if he said anything about the place name association though. Must try to get a look at this - I gather it was unearthed by Tom Shippey and has been published somewhere.
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Lydney
Aug 4, 2009 20:29:03 GMT -1
Post by megli on Aug 4, 2009 20:29:03 GMT -1
Yes he thought that nodons was cognate with a germanic root which appears in english only in 'good *neat's* leather'! No idea what he was talking about but I'm sure he was right.
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