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Post by Francis on Oct 21, 2009 18:58:05 GMT -1
I know I'm not really playing the game as it was set up but what about "The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries" Evans-Wentz.
What's the scholarly oppinion on this Megli/Heron? Is it considered to be the record of a genuine attempt to do what it says on the tin?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 20:13:43 GMT -1
I figured that might get some responses like that. I was raised to avoid Americans talking about Britain or Europe, or more specifically Americans talking about anything much at all if possible. But I guess I'm in the 'colonies' too now so I'm inclined to cut some slack now. I would love to write a book one day when I feel my work has reached a suitable level of maturity and I do hope people will still read it even though I live in Aus. When you say the 'premise' Lee, do you mean the conflating part? I must admit, and it may sound odd, I don't have a terribly extensive knowledge of Irish deities, so I don't really feel qualified to comment on that part. I do however find the mystical/meditative techniques very useful and appealing. This being said I wont try and pretend I'm totally unbiased as I do know Robin and have personal affection for him which always improves peoples writing in one's eyes! But I'm not one of those people that can't listen to intelligent critiques of a friend's work, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. I'm quite surprised anyone's read it actually.
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Post by Heron on Oct 21, 2009 20:42:26 GMT -1
I know I'm not really playing the game as it was set up but what about "The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries" Evans-Wentz. What's the scholarly oppinion on this Megli/Heron? Is it considered to be the record of a genuine attempt to do what it says on the tin? He was a collector of folk lore in the earlier anthropological tradition but was not specifically a Celticist and specialized in eastern religions (Tibetan book of the Dead etc ) as a Theosophist he also brought a particular angle to his presentation. Consider this: "The Morgan is a fairy eternally young, a virgin seductress whose passion, never satisfied, drives her to despair. Her place of abode is beneath the sea; there she possesses marvellous palaces where gold and diamonds glimmer. Accompanied by other fairies, of whom she is in some respect the queen, she rises to the surface of the waters in the splendour of her unveiled beauty. By day she slumbers amid the coolness of the grottoes, and woe to him who troubles her sleep. By night she lets herself be lulled by the waves in the neighbourhood of the rocks. The sea-foam crystallizes at her touch into precious stones, of whiteness as dazzling as that of her body. By moonlight she moans as she combs her fair hair with a comb of fine gold, and she sings in a harmonious voice a plaintive melody whose charm is irresistible. The sailor who listens to it feels himself drawn towards her, without power to break the charm which drags him onward to his destruction; the bark is broken upon the reefs; the man is in the sea, and the Morgan utters a cry of joy. But the arms of the fairy clasp only a corpse; for at her touch men die, and it is this which causes the despair of the amorous and inviolate Morgan. She being pagan, it suffices to have been touched by her in order to suffer the saddest fate which can be reserved to a christian. The unfortunate one whom she has clasped is condemned to wander forever in the trough of the waters, his eyes wide open, the mark of baptism effaced from his forehead. Never will his poor remains know the sweetness of reposing in holy ground, never will he have a tomb where his kindred might come and pray and weep. (The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries - pp. 200-201) This hovering between fascination and horror at Morgan because she is "a pagan" seems to me to betray an attitude that is attracted to but not quite easy with the material he collected. It could be argued that he presents the attitudes of those from whom he collected in this respect, but presentation is all, I think.
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Post by Lee on Oct 21, 2009 21:14:52 GMT -1
nah, its more the idea that is put across that this is some sort ancestral practice being handed down. it isnt. its a modern fabrication.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2009 21:52:49 GMT -1
It's certainly a modern construction that he put together for his kids after marrying an Irish woman and facing that 'will we raise our children around Asatru or Irish polytheism?' question. Something which makes me so glad that mine and my husband's people seemed to want to stick in a really small part of Britain and it's nice and simple for us. As I understand it the only part in it that could be said to be 'handed down' in the person to person sense is the interview in the back with the chappy from Sligo.
On the Evan Wentz question, his authorial voice irritated the crap out of me for similar reasons as Heron mentions. Still, it always seemed necessary to me to try and ignore it and plough on because it offers something quite comprehensive. I wonder is there something out there that improves on it? Because I would like to buy it...
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Post by megli on Oct 21, 2009 22:27:21 GMT -1
Oh God, does anyone really care?!! Sorry for the exasperation but I'm astounded anyone can summon up the energy to read E-W's old drivel.
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Post by megli on Oct 22, 2009 8:34:43 GMT -1
I was completely pissed when I wrote the above. Whoops.
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Post by Adam on Oct 22, 2009 8:53:12 GMT -1
:-D
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Post by Blackbird on Oct 22, 2009 9:50:32 GMT -1
lol! In vino veritas? ;D
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Post by Adam on Oct 22, 2009 10:02:25 GMT -1
I have this image of megli as the scruffy drunk tramp on the street corner shouting out to passers by... thing is, if you stopped to listen, he would be haranguing you with middle welsh poetry ;-)
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Post by Francis on Oct 22, 2009 10:03:33 GMT -1
.... seems to me to betray an attitude that is attracted to but not quite easy with the material he collected. It could be argued that he presents the attitudes of those from whom he collected in this respect, but presentation is all, I think. Thanks for the reply Heron. I'd come to the same conclusion myself in terms of how his approach came across. I take it though by your not suggesting otherwise that it's believed he did actually go out and collect stories - and that the bones of these are believed to be genuine?
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Post by Heron on Oct 22, 2009 21:15:58 GMT -1
.... seems to me to betray an attitude that is attracted to but not quite easy with the material he collected. It could be argued that he presents the attitudes of those from whom he collected in this respect, but presentation is all, I think. Thanks for the reply Heron. I'd come to the same conclusion myself in terms of how his approach came across. I take it though by your not suggesting otherwise that it's believed he did actually go out and collect stories - and that the bones of these are believed to be genuine? AS far as I know. I think the book came out of a doctoral thesis which as supervised by John Rhŷs and Andrew Lang. Some of it was based on published material but I presume the 'field research' he did was genuine, although, as an American, I don't know how close he managed to get to his subjects (in the way that Rhŷs had a generation earlier). Later on he moved on to be primarily interested in Eastern religion. So I don't know how sustained his interest in Celtic folklore was.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 3:48:12 GMT -1
I was completely pissed when I wrote the above. Whoops. Look I always say that if you haven't got completely pissed and posted something to a public forum you've never lived, myself. If it ends up involving quoting Middle Welsh poetry on the street side, or if, better yet, it ends in Middle Welsh poetry being tattoed on your person at a late hour then the next ascension to the status of 'legend' occurs. It's just a little slither of my adolescence I like to hang on to.
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Post by Lee on Aug 3, 2011 11:05:30 GMT -1
just bumping this so i can find it quickly again to add the books to the Brython site
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Post by Sìle on Aug 3, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -1
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