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Post by potia on Jan 10, 2011 8:50:38 GMT -1
What if any might be the relationship between Rigantona and Rosmerta?
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Post by megli on Jan 10, 2011 9:12:47 GMT -1
Does there need to be one?
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Post by dreamguardian on Jan 10, 2011 10:11:09 GMT -1
No, I personally don't think there has to be.
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Post by Rion on Jan 10, 2011 10:39:20 GMT -1
Well, Potia has a point; both Rigantona and Rosmerta are associated with sovereignty of the land.
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Post by deiniol on Jan 10, 2011 11:05:49 GMT -1
What if any might be the relationship between Rigantona and Rosmerta? They might be one and the same deity. They might be sisters. They might form a triad with Epona: a tripled goddess à la Brigid (this option is the one that appeals to me the most, but that's entirely UPG). They might be wholly separate deities, who had little or no overlap- perhaps Rigantona represented the sovereignty of northern Britain, and Rosmerta that of southern Gaul.
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Post by nellie on Jan 10, 2011 11:06:02 GMT -1
That's what I was wondering Potia It may well be a very weak link, but... Rosmerta is shown with a bag full of coins = wealth, abundance, prosperity. In the Mabinogi Rhiannon is in the possession of a magical bag which can never be filled. Could the implication of the bottomless bag be reversed, in as much as it can never run out like the tale of the magical porridge pot? Which would also make it a symbol of abundance too? Like I said, it's a pretty weak link, but Rhiannon's bag has that sort of feel to it for me. What ever the actualities of Rhiannon's bag itself it still seems to echo Rosmerta's frequent imagery of coin filled bags??
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Post by deiniol on Jan 10, 2011 11:15:53 GMT -1
Another thing occurs to me: linguistically speaking, the name "Rosmerta" is probably of fairly late formation. Typically -sm- in the middle of older words would become -mm-. This suggests to me that the name would have been transparent to speakers of Gaulish: perhaps it was in origin an epithet of another deity? If so, my money would be on Meduana ("mead-lady": the river Mayenne in France is her namesake).
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Post by nellie on Jan 10, 2011 11:21:55 GMT -1
The idea of a triplet feels surprisingly... 'right', though as you say that's just my personal initial feeling. Wasn't Ireland represented by 3 sovereignty goddesses that held different parts of the island?
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Post by megli on Jan 10, 2011 12:57:00 GMT -1
The idea of a triplet feels surprisingly... 'right', though as you say that's just my personal initial feeling. Wasn't Ireland represented by 3 sovereignty goddesses that held different parts of the island? They don't hold different parts. Each of their names is taken as a name for the island as a whole. This is quite a late tradition though, by the way, though it whiffs of the archaic.
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Post by Brochfael on Jan 10, 2011 13:05:24 GMT -1
Interesting idea, Rosmerta is generally presented as the consort of Mercury. Another interesting line for discussion is the extent to which 'consorts' may fulfill a similar role to shaktis in Hinduism whereby a God and Goddess personify passive and active (respectively) sides of the same 'function'.
Anyway coming back to your question I think we'd need to establish a functional commonality and/or a linguistic connection
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Post by potia on Jan 10, 2011 14:15:46 GMT -1
Of course there doesn't need to be a relationship between them but with both having sovereignty connotations it may be worth thinking about.
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Post by nellie on Jan 11, 2011 6:25:54 GMT -1
When the members of Clas Brython physically get together, are these the kind of things you work on? Do you attempt any sort of, erm... group UPG? Or do you let these kind of questions progress organically and wait and see?
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Post by potia on Jan 11, 2011 8:53:31 GMT -1
When the members of Clas Brython physically get together, are these the kind of things you work on? Do you attempt any sort of, erm... group UPG? Or do you let these kind of questions progress organically and wait and see? To be honest it varies. Last year those present helped me process an issue I had but we also shared food, mead and chat plus spent time in a wonderful landscape. The year before we had a discussion which led to the final version of the core values material. This year (whenever and wherever we meet) I suspect sovereignty issues may well be a core area for discussion/development but you can never tell what might come up
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Post by dreamguardian on Jan 11, 2011 12:36:07 GMT -1
... but you can never tell what might come up Tracker!!!!
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Post by nellie on Jan 14, 2011 18:28:00 GMT -1
www.dot-domesday.me.uk/tribes.htmThere's a mention here of a tribe in Scotland called the 'smertae'. Is this at all likely to have any links at all to Rosmerta, or is it purely coincidential? According to wiki the Smertae are mentioned only once, by Ptolemy. Interestingly considering Rosmerta is the consort of lugus, the neighbours of the Smertae are the Lugi - does this mean that the tribe in question had any affiliation to Lugos or is it like thinking the words horse and house must be related?
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Post by nellie on Jan 14, 2011 18:29:06 GMT -1
ARGH! Sorry again for my utter rubbishness when it comes to all things computer - I still haven't put the link in properly.
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Post by deiniol on Jan 14, 2011 18:38:10 GMT -1
There's a mention here of a tribe in Scotland called the 'smertae'. Is this at all likely to have any links at all to Rosmerta, or is it purely coincidential? According to wiki the Smertae are mentioned only once, by Ptolemy. Linguistically, the two names are almost certainly related. That does not necessarily mean that there's any religious connection: i.e., it doesn't suggest that the Smertae had Rosmerta as a special "patron" goddess.
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Post by megli on Jan 14, 2011 19:37:19 GMT -1
Ditto the Gallo-Roman god Smertrios, 'The Provider'---same linguistic root as Rosmerta but no necessary connection to her.
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Post by nellie on Jan 14, 2011 21:18:20 GMT -1
I wish I was one of the clever people lol! Thanks for setting me straight ^_^
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