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Post by littleraven on Mar 19, 2007 13:09:38 GMT -1
But on the other hand, if those places are shared with others of a similar intent, I for one believe it can help those place to grow and become new sacred sites for all. As you have already stated, it's an issue of trust.. Yes I do agree with this. I could embarass myself by letting on just how recently I've come to understand both this and how non-exclusive relationships with place should often be. I've been a bit of the 'over-jealous lover' in the past - wanting, or perhaps just expecting, that my relationships with place would involve no others in the mix at the same level of intensity. But my intent was not for those special places, it was those places that may be known to the locals but perhaps don't appear on more well known guides, places such as wells, caves, hillforts etc. Places people could visit if they were travelling to an area they didn't know. Sounds good to me - I'll certainly offer a few in Dyffryn Conwy And of course we can see that even those sacred places that are perceived as 'public', often have a private side, a side that is maintained by a hereditary guardian. The Nant Peris fish for example spring to mind, or the Llandegla well. This caretaker maintains the sacred nature by use of specific practice to prevent it becoming desecrated.
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Post by Midori on Mar 19, 2007 15:17:44 GMT -1
That's quite Ok, Littleraven, I am not offended, we all see Deity in different ways, mine is as valid as yours, and I don't make an issue of my beliefs. At my age, I don't see that it matters.
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Post by littleraven on Mar 20, 2007 8:25:36 GMT -1
That's quite Ok, Littleraven, I am not offended, we all see Deity in different ways, mine is as valid as yours, and I don't make an issue of my beliefs. At my age, I don't see that it matters. I'm glad, offense was not intended. With Mary, there is a very modern neo-pagan interpretation of her as a deity, the relatively recent trend to identify practically all female mythological figures as some kind of avatar of a great mother goddess. Christianity itself requires the humanity of Mary as one of it's most central tenets - the virgin birth. Which creates something of a theological problem. It *always* matters, whatever you're age.
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Post by Midori on Mar 23, 2007 15:53:44 GMT -1
I don't believe in the virgin birth, if you can read the Hebrew version of the NT, it translates as 'young woman'. As far as my scientific knowledge serves me there are only two creatures capable of parthenogenisis, the water flea (daphnia) and wingless greenfly.
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Post by Francis on Mar 23, 2007 16:07:58 GMT -1
I don't believe in the virgin birth, if you can read the Hebrew version of the NT, it translates as 'young woman'. As far as my scientific knowledge serves me there are only two creatures capable of parthenogenisis, the water flea (daphnia) and wingless greenfly. Not that it really matters but parthenogenesis is actually a quite common phenomena. It's been induced in most groups of animmals - and as early as 1900 in vertebrates when it was artifically demonstrated in frogs and even in the 1930's in rabbits. The offspring being genetically identical to the mother It wouldn't of course explain the virgin birth of a son which would require some sort of intervention from the Holy Spirit. Stephen
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Post by littleraven on Mar 23, 2007 16:33:56 GMT -1
More specifically, the 'virgin' refers to a young woman of marriageable age, further humanising her.
Which continues to beg the question how she is considered to be an aspect of a mother goddess.
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Post by Francis on Mar 23, 2007 18:13:58 GMT -1
Which continues to beg the question how she is considered to be an aspect of a mother goddess. Catholic tradition, as opposed to Cannon Law, has it that Mary went on to have other children presumably without the aid of the Holy Spirit and therefore reliant on some man. Any catholic mystic who has prayed the Rosary will have contemplated her emotion as a mother at the Sorrowful Mysteries - Scourging at the Pillar, Crowning with thorns, the carrying of the cross and the crucifixion- and the other one I forget. I can see how she is could be considered an aspect of a mother goddess - She had the joy and sorrow of motherhood, and in the mythology that grew up around her she ascended bodily into heaven where she was crowned queen of heaven. Her role as The Virgin Mary at the Nativity is only one aspect of her mythology. I think (no evidence for this whatsoever I'm just guessing!) that it's an aspect of her that non/never-have-been catholics see as more central to her than catholics and those who have mostly escaped do. Stephen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2007 16:07:45 GMT -1
But my intent was not for those special places, it was those places that may be known to the locals but perhaps don't appear on more well known guides, places such as wells, caves, hillforts etc. Places people could visit if they were travelling to an area they didn't know. I agree that this has the potential to grow into a very valuable resource - I'd certainly be happy to offer what little info I can about the area surrounding Marlborough, specifically the Downs (although, my 'secret' places shall remain so). Boo
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Post by Brochfael on Apr 19, 2007 19:17:17 GMT -1
As a little humourous aside, in the first year of my degree I was given a text on pilgrimmage in the Andes to read. It ponted out that unlike Europe where many places of pilgrimmage were associated with the virgin, sites there were each associated with statues of Christ himself. Each of these was known as our lord of...
The problem came with a particular figure whose name translates into English as our lord of the crag. Rather unfortunately they refer to it as El Senor de Wank'a!
Now any sensible academioc would mention this and use the English translation, but oh no, not this guy! He went on to refer to the popularity of the Wank'a cult, the importance of flagellation (Whipping) in Wank'a pilgrimmages and particularly amusingly theological issues relating to the Wank'a Christ!
Rather schoolboyish I know but it had me laughing myself hoarse.
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Post by littleraven on Apr 20, 2007 10:31:21 GMT -1
As a little humourous aside, in the first year of my degree I was given a text on pilgrimmage in the Andes to read. It ponted out that unlike Europe where many places of pilgrimmage were associated with the virgin, sites there were each associated with statues of Christ himself. Each of these was known as our lord of... The problem came with a particular figure whose name translates into English as our lord of the crag. Rather unfortunately they refer to it as El Senor de Wank'a! Now any sensible academioc would mention this and use the English translation, but oh no, not this guy! He went on to refer to the popularity of the Wank'a cult, the importance of flagellation (Whipping) in Wank'a pilgrimmages and particularly amusingly theological issues relating to the Wank'a Christ! Rather schoolboyish I know but it had me laughing myself hoarse. Interesting, I hadn't heard of this one before. Does worship in this cult take place in a solitary context?
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Post by Brochfael on Apr 22, 2007 12:17:37 GMT -1
Interesting, I hadn't heard of this one before. Does worship in this cult take place in a solitary context? Curiously enough no! It seems to involve large numbers of people gathering together outside the church and vigourously whipping one another.
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Post by littleraven on Apr 22, 2007 15:30:35 GMT -1
So they would be a group, a gathering, a bunch of Wank'as?
I wonder if they await the coming of the messiah of the hairy palms?
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