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Post by arth_frown on Jun 6, 2007 15:36:08 GMT -1
apperently the river Arun here in West Sussex use to be called Tarrant I know that rivers where named after Goddess but could this river be named after the God Taranis. Or am I adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5?
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Post by littleraven on Jun 6, 2007 16:19:13 GMT -1
What is the earliest recorded date of the name?
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Post by Heron on Jun 6, 2007 20:59:09 GMT -1
Arun replaced Tarrant in the 16th cent.
Arun is a back formation from Arundel (<Hirondelle =swallow) the name of the horse of Bevis of Hampton whose legend says he took on a giant that was terrorizing the district. Could this giant be a memory of the thunder god?
Greg
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Post by arth_frown on Jun 7, 2007 12:55:07 GMT -1
Arun replaced Tarrant in the 16th cent. Arun is a back formation from Arundel (<Hirondelle =swallow) the name of the horse of Bevis of Hampton whose legend says he took on a giant that was terrorizing the district. Could this giant be a memory of the thunder god? Greg Thanks Greg also found this on Bevis. "His sword, which goes by the name of Morglay is 5 ft 9 in tall and is currently kept in the armoury (or library) of Arundel Castle, from the battlements of which he threw the sword to mark his place of burial. There are three seperate barrows which have claim to be the spot where the sword fell : Bevis's Grave (SU 692064) is a long barrow near Havant, Hampshire. Bevis's Thumb (SU 787155) is a long barrow near the Sussex village of Compton, which is not too far from the border with Hampshire. Bevis's Tomb (TQ 0108) is a possible long barrow in Arundel Park near the castle, by far the closest of the three. He was said to be able to walk from Southampton to the Isle of Wight without getting his head wet." Interestedly enough the story of Bevis throwing his sword to mark his burial place is like the story of Gill the Giant throwing his hammer to mark his grave. And keeping his head above water while walking the sea reminds me of Bran walking through the sea to Ireland. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2009 15:57:38 GMT -1
Later, the river was called the Arun, not from the original root of Arun ( hoar - valley #), but named as an abbreviation of the name of the town.
However, in Celtic names, Aberdeen, Falmouth (Aberfal) and others, the river name came first.
( # hoar refers to the shrub "horehound" ? Ballota nigra and dell is a smallish valley ?)
I do NOT know why the river was called Tarente, c725.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2009 11:34:37 GMT -1
It is possible that Tarente derived from the British word 'tristanton' (according to Judith Glover). I would NOT like to be quoted on this one as I am not sure. I am in two minds, the alternative being a Latin origin.
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Post by megli on Feb 19, 2009 12:04:00 GMT -1
It is possible that Tarente derived from the British word 'tristanton' (according to Judith Glover). I would NOT like to be quoted on this one as I am not sure. I am in two minds, the alternative being a Latin origin. Not 'tristanton', rather Trisantona, same as the Trent. (Ptolemy uses this form on his map with regard to the Arun, mentioning the 'outlets of the river Trisantona' ( ekbolai potamou Trisantonos). Trisantona would have given late British Trihanton, and with metathesis (the swapping over of letters, a very common form of sound change) Tirhanton; this would then be likely to undergo a form of vowel-harmonisation to Tarhanton, which would be borrowed into AS as Tarente or the like, hence Tarrant. The river must mean 'Divine Lady who [somethings] through/across', but the 'sant-' element is obscure. There's a Gaulish tribe called the Santones whose name seems to have the same word in it: one wonders if it's related to the Celtic root *sentu- 'way' - hence 'River goddess who cuts her way through' - but the vowel is a problem. |
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Post by Midori on Feb 19, 2009 15:53:03 GMT -1
Another definition of 'tarrant' is that it is a corruption of 'Torrent', which seens logical as it relates to water.
At least that's how it is defined up in North Hampshire.
Cheers, midori
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2009 15:57:23 GMT -1
It is possible that Tarente derived from the British word 'tristanton' (according to Judith Glover). I would NOT like to be quoted on this one as I am not sure. I am in two minds, the alternative being a Latin origin. Not 'tristanton', rather Trisantona, same as the Trent. (Ptolemy uses this form on his map with regard to the Arun, mentioning the 'outlets of the river Trisantona' ( ekbolai potamou Trisantonos). Trisantona would have given late British Trihanton, and with metathesis (the swapping over of letters, a very common form of sound change) Tirhanton; this would then be likely to undergo a form of vowel-harmonisation to Tarhanton, which would be borrowed into AS as Tarente or the like, hence Tarrant. The river must mean 'Divine Lady who [somethings] through/across', but the 'sant-' element is obscure. There's a Gaulish tribe called the Santones whose name seems to have the same word in it: one wonders if it's related to the Celtic root *sentu- 'way' - hence 'River goddess who cuts her way through' - but the vowel is a problem. Thanks for the extra information. |
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Post by arth_frown on Feb 19, 2009 19:34:00 GMT -1
It is possible that Tarente derived from the British word 'tristanton' (according to Judith Glover). I would NOT like to be quoted on this one as I am not sure. I am in two minds, the alternative being a Latin origin. Not 'tristanton', rather Trisantona, same as the Trent. (Ptolemy uses this form on his map with regard to the Arun, mentioning the 'outlets of the river Trisantona' ( ekbolai potamou Trisantonos). Trisantona would have given late British Trihanton, and with metathesis (the swapping over of letters, a very common form of sound change) Tirhanton; this would then be likely to undergo a form of vowel-harmonisation to Tarhanton, which would be borrowed into AS as Tarente or the like, hence Tarrant. The river must mean 'Divine Lady who [somethings] through/across', but the 'sant-' element is obscure. There's a Gaulish tribe called the Santones whose name seems to have the same word in it: one wonders if it's related to the Celtic root *sentu- 'way' - hence 'River goddess who cuts her way through' - but the vowel is a problem. Thanks Megli. It does cut it's way through the south downs. |
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Post by megli on Feb 19, 2009 21:25:15 GMT -1
Welcome, anytime.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 10:52:22 GMT -1
I may sound very stupid, but maybe the e is lowered to a because the next syllable contains an o? Some kind of weird vowel affection? In Santones the a is also followed by an o in the next syllable.
Just a brainwave from a non-linguist...
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Post by megli on Feb 20, 2009 11:53:33 GMT -1
Cunning. Not sure it can be right though - that kind of a-affection doesn't take place untill later in the history of the language. Also in the name of the Sentantii tribe, for example, which definitely contains the 'sent-', 'way' word, the e- is happily present even though there is a 'low' vowel, -a-, in the next syllable.
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