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Post by clare on Dec 15, 2008 20:23:01 GMT -1
I'm too stubborn at the minute to truly appreciae anything with an overly abrahamic atmosphere - I suppose I will learn to put up with it. Maglowyllt, beware turning towards Paganism simply because you may be turned away from Christianity. It's something a great many Pagans have done and it appears to add very little to their practice, they're defined by what they loathe rather than what they love. Your posts demonstrate some struggle and the wisdom that, although you properly pay attention to your feelings, you also know that there's (always!) more to be learned. BTW, most of the time I'm a monotheist, often an atheist and, all the time, I have no idea of the nature or non-nature of deity!
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Post by sehnga on Dec 15, 2008 20:31:47 GMT -1
I've always been a pagan, ever since I was a very young child. However, I understand Mag's point of view; after the last ten+ years of uber-aggressive fundamentalist xtianity here in the States, I am fed up to HERE with it, and unfortunately, it has made me gun-shy of anything to do with xtianity -at this time, anyway. Prior to this, I never had any problems with anyone's choice of religion. I understand that this movement had as much to do with politics as religion, but nevertheless, I have never been exposed to such hatred and nastiness as I have in the last ten years.
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Post by littleraven on Dec 15, 2008 21:59:33 GMT -1
I am about as pagan as they come tbh, I've even had 'fundamentalist' thrown at me a few times. But the thing about Christianity is, once you understand it it becomes an altogether different animal and one to examine, not ignore.
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Post by sehnga on Dec 16, 2008 1:50:13 GMT -1
I am quite familiar with it, and understand its place in mythos analyzation.
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Post by yggwaldir on Dec 16, 2008 11:08:53 GMT -1
I agree with most of what has been said. Just one comment: Yes, we should examine christianity, and learn what we can from it. Care should be taken however that doing this, we do not adopt a (partially) christian worldview. I hope we can strive to construct a pagan (in this case: brythonic) worldview. Such a construct will enable us to truly understand the original meaning of certain "christian" rites and customs. I'm in favor of incorporating christian elements in our culture (we can not ignore the past), but we should look at them through a pagan lens. Hopefully someone can make sense of my rambling, I haven't had enough cafeïne yet today.
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Post by littleraven on Dec 16, 2008 12:04:29 GMT -1
... but we should look at them through a pagan lens. No. Because what people consider to be 'pagan' today is highly influenced by longstanding Christian and idealistic worldviews that bear little relationship to any kind of original pagan thinking. Looking at them through a 'pagan lens' is as biased as looking at them through a Christian, or Muslim, or Judaic, or any other kind of lens. You should look at it through a 'human' lens if any.
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Post by littleraven on Dec 16, 2008 12:05:10 GMT -1
I am quite familiar with it, and understand its place in mythos analyzation. Then you shouldn't be bothered by it.
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Post by ghyll on Dec 16, 2008 12:28:13 GMT -1
Imho the only way to understand someones view of the world is to be as they are, all be it temporarily. To see the world through their eyes completely.
Then to take a step back and start deconstructing what you have learned. Assimilating or discarding by logic and reason. Applying the mental sword to cut to the meat of their belief system. Uncovering superstition and belief built on prior systems to get to the truth of it all.
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Post by Tegernacus on Dec 16, 2008 12:52:48 GMT -1
good. But belief systems aren't arrived to through logic necessarily, so by applying a certain cold logic you are cutting out the bit that makes it a belief system. it's more useful to look at HOW the system came about. Find out the history of Christianity. Find out how it arrived in your area. Find out how your ancestors became involved. Find out how deep their connection to that religion was. Harder to do, but you'll understand WHY much better than simply "trying out" the religion, which won't tell you much. your ancestor may have been an alcoholic. But you'll find it's more useful to look at their life and find out WHY they were an alcoholic than simply hitting the drink cabinet to find out how it feels
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Post by maglowyllt on Dec 16, 2008 18:09:06 GMT -1
Seems I sparked off quite the debate here. I think I came over as being rather more hostile than I was intending to be and am completely in agreement that Christianity should be examined in relation to the pagan paths and to understand their view, though I do not feel it nessecary to pay any real attention to those areas of it that do not relate to us.
I don't think that is a definition of me Clare. I am not one of those pagans recently escaped from a devout christian sect searching freedom - I have always had a fairly atheist upbringing. Paganism was my first ever experience of spirituality - I have just always (as far as I can remember) had a deep resentment to Christianity and any other form of Monotheism.
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Post by arth_frown on Dec 16, 2008 20:09:10 GMT -1
You often find that those who are comfortable with there own religion become more comfortable with others religion.
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Post by sehnga on Dec 17, 2008 9:45:21 GMT -1
I am quite familiar with it, and understand its place in mythos analyzation. Then you shouldn't be bothered by it. I didn't say the religion itself bothered me - although I don't care for the patriarichal/women-are-evil tenets; it's some of the followers that disturb me. Other than that, my only other comments regarding xtianity are that the Old Testament and the New Testament might have originated from two different planets; there is a huge dichotomy between the OT and Jesus's teachings, and I see this reflected in many practioners today; they haven't apparently resolved it either, nor has the religion itself. I find it a very poorly written compilation; I assume too much has been edited out.
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Post by Tegernacus on Dec 17, 2008 10:03:28 GMT -1
of course. The point is not to look at the books, but the traditions surrounding the whole movement (many of which, if not British specific, have informed and directed the life of this island for 1500 years). There is much to be learned about the people from the study of their faith, whatever it is.
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Post by Blackbird on Dec 17, 2008 10:13:36 GMT -1
Ideally, we should try to look at things with no lens at all - to see things as they really are, rather than as we perceive them to be. (Obviously, that is pretty impossible, given that our experiences and beliefs colour everything we observe.)
I've been a polytheist since I was a child and haven't had much exposure to Xianity. To me, it's just another of many other religions. I don't have any feelings about it in particular... there are some bits of it which seem very beautiful to me, such as the church and cathedral buildings, the plainsong and so forth.
I do think it's important to remember that the Brythons embraced Xianity early on - and that Britain then became largely pagan again when the Germans (shorthand) arrived.
After the collapse of the Roman empire, it was Xianity that stepped forward and filled the gap left behind, offering a similar universal culture and structure, emanating likewise from Rome. If we want to understand Brythonic culture, we absolutely have to understand early Xianity.
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Post by sehnga on Dec 18, 2008 7:39:51 GMT -1
So hard to separate it from the politics of the time. I suppose a whole-cloth methodology would work, though.
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Post by Midori on Dec 21, 2008 8:19:47 GMT -1
Hi Maglowillt,
Can I suggest you go back to the Bible and read the Teachings of Jesus without getting involved in the rest, and you will find that the message is simple, Help one another and Do no harm.
The Message of Jesus is quite different from the teachings of the Church, which is basically Paulian, and Paul was a mysogynistic and intolerant old fart!
I have no problems incorporating the teachings of Jesus into mt version of Paganism.
Cheers, midori
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Post by maglowyllt on Dec 21, 2008 14:09:46 GMT -1
Perhaps I will do that some day Midori.
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Post by littleraven on Jun 28, 2009 8:46:15 GMT -1
This 30 years age connects Gaulish Druids and Hyperborean religion. Uh oh <waits for Megli>
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Post by littleraven on Jun 28, 2009 10:39:11 GMT -1
Just a FYI, but we've been here long since. We don't do 'neo-Drudry' and all of it's assumptions.
As for the uh-oh, Hyperborea isn't too well thought of as a source of evidence here, little Scythian priests 'n' all. You should be able to do some searching on that.
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