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Post by Lee on Oct 5, 2008 23:15:18 GMT -1
the pagan dash scheme is what i was referring to. if we supply the ONS with Brythonic and the info that it is a pagan path it will be counted, as i understna it, the ONS need to be advised what they can expect as the written element.. very close friend is the person behind the PaganDash thing in the UK.
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Post by jez on Oct 6, 2008 5:06:24 GMT -1
That is what happened to those who put in 'heathen'.
Despite later protests - when it turned out that they had all been counted as 'godless' - all those people are counted as atheist, and it was too late to alter that.
--
And of course, the number of bloody-minded heathens like me who withheld all information not legally required simply because they did not see what right the government had to ask it, was probably quite large as well...
--
Jez
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Post by oghma on Oct 6, 2008 10:41:43 GMT -1
That is what happened to those who put in 'heathen'. Despite later protests - when it turned out that they had all been counted as 'godless' - all those people are counted as atheist, and it was too late to alter that. Yes that was absolutely ridiculous. That is why the Pagan tag might be very useful. I do know a lot of heathens gritted their teeth and put down "Pagan", resulting in Heathens being underrepresented. That should not be necessary this time,as the authorities now know they are dealing with large groups thast have to be counted properly. Well yes. And for the sake of the figures you probably counted effectively as "No religion" No answer/religion made up one fifth of the population.
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Post by potia on Oct 6, 2008 10:44:17 GMT -1
Please remember that when talking about governmental issues like this things are different in Scotland. Our census questions are a little different as are our legal and educational systems which is why I can perform handfastings that count as legal religious weddings here in Scotland but you can't have one in England or Wales as yet - just one example of the differences. The body that has done the most to move this along in Scotland is the Pagan Federation. And again PF Scotland is an autonomous national body within the Pagan Federation so we do things a bit differently on that front too. I know there aren't many members of this forum in Scotland but I am rather keen that we shouldn't be forgotten
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Post by Lee on Oct 6, 2008 10:48:49 GMT -1
Jez - the upcoming pagan dash scheme will mean the answer will be "Pagan - " so you can wirte in heathen and it will be counted along with the other pagans. now i know some heathens and other pagan types dont like to be referred to as pagan etc but at present it is the only coherant way we can be counted.
as to the government asking - i think they have just as much right to ask the question as we have not to answer it if we so choose.
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Post by Blackbird on Oct 6, 2008 14:47:31 GMT -1
Good point about Scotland, and the PF there seems to be influential, whereas here, it would appear to have keeled over.
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Post by potia on Oct 6, 2008 16:09:42 GMT -1
PF Scotland is thriving and has developed some influence thanks to slow and steady work from a range of the PFS council members on a number of fronts but yes PF England and Wales are having a rougher time right now.
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Post by oghma on Oct 6, 2008 17:52:01 GMT -1
I know there aren't many members of this forum in Scotland but I am rather keen that we shouldn't be forgotten Yes, unfortunately my site was only able to deal with the figures for England and Wales, though I did mutually link with PF Scotland when they got hold of their figures.
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Post by redraven on Oct 6, 2008 17:58:22 GMT -1
May I ask about the practicalities of Saturday? I have decided to get there around mid-day as I want a good look around as I haven't been to the place before. I know some of you are traveling a good distance and are looking to get there mid-afternoon. Are will still agreed that a meet up prior to the meeting is a good idea, and if so, can I suggest meeting at the visitor centre at 3.30 pm?
RR
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Post by Lee on Oct 6, 2008 18:18:53 GMT -1
im aiming to be there sooner than that too - i want a look around i should be there about 1-1:30 ish. anyone fancy an earlier meet up too?
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Post by Craig on Oct 7, 2008 5:54:22 GMT -1
Hi RR,
I'll be there when I'm there, and more specific I cannot be. I'm travelling from Mid-Wales and there are number of traffic hotspots along the way.
Good news is that Hawkwind has now confirmed his attendance. He'll be there by teatime.
I'm really looking forward to finally putting faces to names. If we're there early we'll gather with you guys'n'gals.
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 7, 2008 8:47:47 GMT -1
im aiming to be there sooner than that too - i want a look around i should be there about 1-1:30 ish. anyone fancy an earlier meet up too? Bram and I should be there early if you want to meet up? I want to get there early so we can have a look around.
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Post by Lee on Oct 7, 2008 9:04:05 GMT -1
im aiming to be there sooner than that too - i want a look around i should be there about 1-1:30 ish. anyone fancy an earlier meet up too? Bram and I should be there early if you want to meet up? I want to get there early so we can have a look around. that sounds good - how about a 2:30 pm meet somewhere?
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Post by arth_frown on Oct 7, 2008 9:22:13 GMT -1
Bram and I should be there early if you want to meet up? I want to get there early so we can have a look around. that sounds good - how about a 2:30 pm meet somewhere? Sounds good, maybe at the vistors centre? I'll PM you my mobile number. just so you know who to look out for, I have long brown hair and a ginger beard.
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Post by claer on Oct 7, 2008 9:42:43 GMT -1
I am still hoping to be able to resolve some weekend working to attend the meeting on Saturday. Not able to confirm yet - but working on it. If I can make it I'd hope to get there around 4-4:30pm and will not be able to stay over.
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Post by Blackbird on Oct 7, 2008 13:37:29 GMT -1
Not sure what time I'll get there. Not too early though, as this is my first Saturday off since July (and my first day off at all for about 3 weeks) and I want a bloody lie in! Partly depends on lifts - Jez? RR? I won't be staying over either - it's not far back to Notts and I'd prefer a night in my own bed
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Post by jez on Oct 7, 2008 13:41:41 GMT -1
If we are going in yours, then you call the shots. I assume we have to pay the entry fee? In which case, a little time in daylight to look around would be nice And anyway, we need to get together at least enough to decide what to take with us - and if we are staying, to decide what we are bringing for overnight. EDIT - decide when we are going home. And which one is staying completely sober Tomorrow seems to be ok if it still is for you - you coming here? Hold lunch and I'll feed you if you want - I have pork steaks and cauliflower/brocolli cheese planned. -- Jez
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Post by redraven on Oct 7, 2008 14:50:57 GMT -1
Not sure what time I'll get there. Not too early though, as this is my first Saturday off since July (and my first day off at all for about 3 weeks) and I want a bloody lie in! Partly depends on lifts - Jez? RR? A lie in for me is 7 am! I'll make my own way there BB, thanks for the offer, but going to Beeston is going 20 miles in the wrong direction, and as I have stated, I want to get there early to spend some time looking around. Hope to have a chat with you in the afternoon. RR
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Post by Craig on Oct 8, 2008 11:06:23 GMT -1
Here is the proposed agenda from Stefan for the Flag Fen Conclave this Saturday 11th October, commencing 6pm.
THE AGENDA
1/ What do we feel is lacking in modern Druidry? What is it we want from it?
2/ What can we do to create a new culture that feels more spiritually mature and incorporates a sense of religiousness to our practice without enforcing a strict set of rules?
3/ What form of dogma is acceptable? Here the main focus is on religious theology, not just whether or not we use drums, or gather in a circle etc.
4/ How can we create a sense of cohesiveness within this new direction?
5/ What can we learn from the mistakes of the past/present, re the modern Druid tradition? Why is the counter culture creating a negative influence on the Druid tradition? Why is our practice becoming watered down?
6/ What do we want the basic structure of our rituals to include?
7/ The gods and goddesses. Why do they remain elusive within group ritual? What is it about the substance of spiritual experience within solitary practice that becomes lost in group ritual? Discuss individuality verses an agreed understanding of Druidic spirituality. Will it create a sense of unity to know some one else is doing more or less the same as you are?
Note: Many people attending this conclave will have their own agenda's and concerns. This is an opportunity to voice them. People need to use this opportunity to speak from the heart and talk their Truth.
If people want me to I will also provide a talk explaining the various phases of Pagan religion in pre Roman Britain and explain why these have all been lumped together under the catch all term of Druid in modern times. The talk will focus specifically on spiritual belief and how such beliefs were translated into religious practice. There is a vast difference within the religious beliefs of the Mesolithic, Neolithic, Late Neolithic to mid to late Bronze Age, Mid to late Bronze Age to Iron Age. All these periods witnessed a huge transformation in religious practice. Today we have thrown everything into the same bag and called it Druidry. If we are content to do this, then we at least need to understand why we are doing it. The only Druidry we can be sure of belongs to the final phase of the periods listed above, late Bronze to Iron Age. However I do not want this debate to turn into a history lesson. The prime focus for the debate is related to our spiritual beliefs and there related practices and how these can be made more relevant today, in order for what we do to become more enlightened, spiritually mature and have a real sense of substance to it.
We need to regain our edge and free ourselves from the trappings of illusion and romaticism.
In Truth/|\ Stefan
Oh yes, I nearly forgot the biggest aspect of the entire debate...
WHAT DO WE BELIEVE???
Stefan/|\
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