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Post by brongoch on Nov 5, 2008 9:25:40 GMT -1
I hope this is in the right place...
The thread on animal sacrifice got me thinking about deposition in water as a form of sacrifice, the tradition of placing a precious or symbolic object into water as an offering. This became prevalent with the deterioration of the climate to a wetter weather pattern as we are experiencing now. Swords, torcs, armour and other precious metal objects were offered but also food, wooden votive figures and small symbolic items depicting larger, more expensive items. This is something that I have practised fairly often, a coin tossed into the river before a fishing trip, the charity wishing well or occasionally a small votive offering to accompany a petitionary prayer. While it is not practical and certainly not desirable to chuck a 36" HDTV into a bog I do think there is some mileage in symbolic offerings made of ecologically-neutral materials such as wood, small amounts of dough or river clay. Certainly the monetary value of the small bronze shield models that have been found would have been negligible compared to the actual item, indicating that the intention was the object of the exercise, not the fiscal sacrifice. Has anyone else practised this form of sacrifice and what are your experiences or thoughts on the matter?
Cheers
Rob
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Post by Craig on Nov 5, 2008 11:33:08 GMT -1
Yes I have, into the Mawddach, several pools along Llyn Llety and the Severn. In most cases these were painted beach pebbles or carved short wooden staves, products of my hands.
My reason was to show gratitude, not as propitiation nor in order to curry favour.
The reaction has always been positive, a deep sense of rightness and well-being.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2008 12:38:04 GMT -1
If I'm doing one of my ritual things for something I have often travelled to a near by river to gather water. Part of this process has been to offer something up to the spirit of that place as a "thanks", but also as some sort of acknowledgment of that spirit (acknowledgment isn't the right word, but I can't quite grasp what is....).
So, the whole "offerings to water" thing is something encompassed in my practice. In part it's also about the river bank, a point of transition. I've done similar things with the sea.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2008 12:39:58 GMT -1
I always make an offering of a good single malt when I'm crossing the sea, in thanks for a safe journey. Last time we were rewarded by seeing a group of dolphins leaping alongside the boat, the kids were over the moon. That's about it, for me. There's not much water where we're living these days.
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Post by arth_frown on Nov 5, 2008 15:00:27 GMT -1
We usually give a offering of food or/and mead either put in the fire or left on the earth as a gift. A ancestor or a god (not sure which)did me a favour once, I was told of some trouble. I sorted out the problem and I buried a solar wheel I made in the woods to say thank you. I never made a offering in water, I've never had the need.
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Post by abhaill on Nov 9, 2008 5:33:23 GMT -1
When a friend of mine set out on a journey to the Isle of Man, I sent along a stone I had painted with waves and spirals with the request that she deposit it into the waves for Manannan in a place she felt it appropriate to do so. I trusted her judgment and her ability to hear the voices of the spirits of place she would encounter there.
When I visited Ireland for a month a couple of years ago, I brought with me many "little pretties" as I heard them called to leave at sacred sites on land and in waters fresh and salty, such as chunky amethyst, pearl, horn and shell beads, as well as shiny new Canadian quarters. I rarely felt the urge to deposit the coins, but I left the amethyst particularly in bogs, ponds, lakes, streams, rivers and waves, not to mention caves, the roots of trees, and mountain tops.
I left them as thanks for drawing me to find those sacred places, the nooks and crannies, the wide open spaces, and in gratitude for my just being there at all. Sometimes I would feel acknowledgment before I gave the gifts and sometimes afterwards, I just let my heart lead me and opened my senses as widely as I could.
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Post by Tegernacus on Nov 9, 2008 9:13:19 GMT -1
Whenever I go to the beach I collect round white pebbles. I have a bag full.
When I need to leave something above ground, on a hilltop etc, its one of these stones. Whenever I need to leave something in water, it's a copper coin. Always has been, it's force of habit from when I was a child. Especially when crossing water, or on a bridge.
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Post by aelfarh on Nov 12, 2008 17:08:19 GMT -1
If you stay more than a niight in glastonbury, I strongly advice you to go to the Tor at midnight. Is open 24 hrs., and you don't get tourists there walking around. And well, for me it was a very powerful experience. Actually I made my Bardic initiation ritual there, at midnight and it was so great.. no words to describe it. Just bring warm cloth since the winds are strong up there.
And what about another kind of offerings, Do you see a dedication of work as an offering? eg. I dedicate my MSc thesis to the gods, by working on it and by stating that on the first page.
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Post by Blackbird on Nov 13, 2008 9:14:44 GMT -1
Yes, definitely.
I've offered songs and poetry before. Often a piece written or improvised just for that one occasion, performed once and never again. Sometimes a piece which can be repeated, perhaps as praise-poetry. I also dedicated my martial arts society to my lord of Thunder, who seemed to want his name more widely known. For the purposes of that activity, he took on the role of patron.
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Post by Heron on Nov 13, 2008 10:29:56 GMT -1
I keep a little bag of semi-precious stones in my pocket whenever I go out and often give them to the river in the special place where I go to be with her and also sometimes elsewhere. What is the right word for this? I certainly don't think of it as sacrifice. Or even an offering. More of a gift from me to another with whom I have a close relationship.
But in other places, where I am a visitor, if I chose to leave something, I suppose it would be more like an offering.
Whatever we leave we should always be aware of the potential nuisance value of 'sacred litter' to others who might visit a site.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2008 11:05:03 GMT -1
We regularly give the Gods an offering at the Long Man. Usually 4 pints of the very best Sussex Banqueting Mead, offered up, in thanks for the Gods' blessings on our rites. Then poured with thanks onto the earth. People often bring flowers to the rituals, and bread. At the end of the ceremony I pick these up, place the flowers beside a little Hawthorn tree near the hill, and the bread in a bush for the animals to enjoy.
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Post by Tegernacus on Nov 13, 2008 11:17:33 GMT -1
good to hear. That's the main problem I have with deposition, it has a danger of becoming litter, almost. I'm not saying don't do it, but do it responsibly.
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Post by brongoch on Nov 13, 2008 11:23:52 GMT -1
Which is why I mentioned the use of materials in the OP. Biodegradable offerings or offerings made from the materials available locally (earth, clay, grass, twigs) would be preferable these days rather than bronze. I don't see any problem with cut flowers as long as there is nothing that could root (rhododendrons are spreading through the Peak district like a rash through a submarine). Personally I like to make mud or clay tablets modelled with the image of a deity, item or body part for healing. They disappear within the hour and take nothing from nor add anything to the environment.
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Post by arth_frown on Nov 13, 2008 11:46:23 GMT -1
Anything that rots away fast is good. Even a poem on a piece of paper will be gone in a few weeks. Food is good usually gone within a few days
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Post by Tegernacus on Nov 13, 2008 12:04:06 GMT -1
with paper, poems or dedications, make sure you put it under a stone, or dig a small hole and bury it (depending on site). Nothing worse than paper blowing everywhere.. well, aside from rusting lager cans
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Post by arth_frown on Nov 13, 2008 12:10:34 GMT -1
with paper, poems or dedications, make sure you put it under a stone, or dig a small hole and bury it (depending on site). Nothing worse than paper blowing everywhere.. well, aside from rusting lager cans Good point! maybe take home the rusty can.
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Post by Blackbird on Nov 14, 2008 14:13:58 GMT -1
When I'm offering a poem, it's not on paper! To me, it has to be performed, rather than written down. Speak it into the winds, so they might carry it to the ears of the gods
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Post by Sìle on Nov 27, 2008 17:06:18 GMT -1
I always make an offering of a good single malt when I'm crossing the sea, in thanks for a safe journey. I do this, too, and have always been rewarded. ;D
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