Living Seidr

[potia]

The following are my notes from a talk attended at PaganCon in Glasgow. I think it relates in some ways to some of the things talked about in the trance thread in the Halls of the Skilled area but I felt this was better here.

Notes on Living Seidr talk by Malcolm Campbell at PaganCon Glasgow 2009.

Malcolm has been practicing Seidr for 27 years. He described his practice as falling into three areas, journeying, dreamwork and soulcraft. His talk focussed on soulcraft. He went onto explain what he meant by that.

In order to explain soulcraft he used the Valknut symbol to illustrate the aspects of the self as mind, body and soul. All connected and all interdependent on one another. In his talk Malcolm described how each of these three things can be further broken down into three more aspects as follows.

The body can be broken down into the physical form, an energy body that remains closely tied to the physical form and an energy form or aspect that can travel.

The Mind he broke down into thought, memory and something else with a Norse name that I can’t remember but which he translated as roughly meaning luck. All of these he explained further. Thought he emphasised was not what might be defined that way in modern science although this was part of it. Instead he described thought as paying attention to the world, using your perceptions. Again memory was not what modern science might define but for him this was tied to our experiences and emotions. The concept of luck was even more complicated. Malcolm spoke of individuals being born with a certain amount of inherent luck but there comes a time when we make our own luck by the way we face the world. I would interpret this as our attitudes towards life around us. He asked people to think of others they knew that seemed generally either lucky or unlucky. He asked if the lucky ones usually had a positive attitude and the unlucky ones a negative attitude and said that he had found that this was usually the case.

I think it was around this stage that he also spoke about Wyrd and Orlog. Both of these are difficult concepts but my own understanding of them is that Wyrd is formed of the interactions between all that was, is and will be and Orlog is our own interactions with Wyrd. See www.wyrdwords.vispa.com/heathenry/whatwyrd.html for a good article on Wyrd.

Next he spoke of the soul and gain broke that down into three aspects. The first aspect he referred to is a part of soul exists independently and yet part of ourselves. The term he used was a Fetch and it usually takes on an animal form of the opposite gender to your own. It acts as both guide and guardian and is very important in Seidr work. The second is what he called Kin-fylgia and this he described as an aspect of soul passed down your bloodline. Not everyone has a kin-fylgia with them but we would all be linked to one through our blood if I understand this correctly. There was a third aspect but I can’t remember what it was.

Having described the self and soul Malcolm then explained that to him soul craft was the art of using Seidr journeys to improve the soul - either his own or someone else’s. The journeys most often involve entering some aspect of the Heathen Worlds cosmology guided by his fetch to learn, see and aid a soul. This could include taking aspects from one to give to another in extreme cases and so is a heavy responsibility not to be taken lightly. He also stressed that working on one aspect of someone’s soul would have affects on every other part of them and that this must be carefully considered before any work was started.

Such work changes both the person doing it and the person it is done for. If I remember correctly in Malcolm’s opinion this sort of work can soften many of the more aggressive tendencies in a man and help a woman doing this to access levels of inner strength and confidence that she may not have otherwise found. It is this softening of certain masculine traits that he feels led to men practicing Seidr being referred to as Ergi which has implications of weakness and cowardice.

This was a fascinating talk and gave me much food for thought. The above notes are what I remember of what Malcolm said and I may have misinterpreted his words.

What I do remember pretty clearly is that he ended by saying we are beautifully complex beings and we should celebrate that complexity.

I also remember that he strongly recommended Jenny Blain's Nine Worlds of Seid Magic book as the best he has read on the subject of Seidr.

[Heron]

If there is one thing that has always been interesting to me in Heathenry it is the idea of Wyrd, the Well of Urðr and the Norns. If I was putting together a pick and mix reconstruction of Northern European paganism that would be in there with the Brythonic stuff. When I studied Old English and Old Norse as an undergraduate I was particularly fascinated by these aspects of the material and read aroundf way outside the syllabus and, I seem to remember, wrote a long poem about the norns. At that time 'heathen' was just another word for 'pagan', druidry was very much a restricted area in terms of opportunities to look at Brythonic material and the main stream of paganism was one form or another of 'traditional' witchcraft or neo-wiccan practices. Seiðr was certainly not something I had heard of although I had to translate the passage from Eirik the Red's Saga about the Greenland Prophetess that is often quoted as an example of Seiðr practice. After reading Jenny's book (which I agree is probably the best account of Seiðr as understood by modern heathens) I dug out my Old Norse Reader and also a notebook containing my translations. I noted that 'Seiðr' was glossed there simply as 'spell' or 'magic'. It is clear from that passage in the saga that, for the Christian people of the time, consulting a Spákona ('prophet woman') was a bit dodgy and some of them are uneasy about it. The woman is known locally as 'the Little Sybil' but it's not clear if this is ironic, derogatory or just a descriptive nickname. But she can't prophesy without someone else singing a particular chant to attract the spirits and they have trouble finding someone who knows it and when they do find someone who learnt it from her grandmother she is reluctant because she is a Christian. But as they need to find out why there is a famine she agrees. My translation then says that the Prophetess 'performs her spell', that is I've taken 'Seiðr' to be in the genitive : 'Seiðinn (the form 'seiðr' is in the nominative case and it doesn't appear in that form in the passage). So nothing at the time, in spite of my interest in the material, suggested that Seiðr was a special type of magic as opposed to a word for 'spell', so references to 'the Seiðr', as if it were a specific system were new to me until I read Jenny's book in spite of having an early interest in the material, although I haven't pursued the study of Old Norse since graduating and that was a long time ago.

So I have mixed feelings about it in the sense that it is built up into an oracular tradition in its own right rather than just describing the practice of certain prophetesses (and they did always seem to be women). But Wyrd and the Norns is another matter (though even here there has been a suggestion of an importation from the Greek Spinners of Fate) and I wonder, given your interest in The Cailleach, how you think she compares to Urðr?

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2009 10:29:30 GMT -1 potia said:

The Mind he broke down into thought, memory and something else with a Norse name that I can’t remember but which he translated as roughly meaning luck.

Next he spoke of the soul and gain broke that down into three aspects. The first aspect he referred to is a part of soul exists independently and yet part of ourselves. The term he used was a Fetch and it usually takes on an animal form of the opposite gender to your own. It acts as both guide and guardian and is very important in Seidr work. The second is what he called Kin-fylgia and this he described as an aspect of soul passed down your bloodline. Not everyone has a kin-fylgia with them but we would all be linked to one through our blood if I understand this correctly. There was a third aspect but I can’t remember what it was.

The Norse term for the 'Luck' aspect is 'Hamingja'
In terms of soul aspects, the other type of aspect along with fylgia, kin-fylgia I've heard of is valkyrie. This was an interpretation by Runic John in his 'Book of Seidr'- the valkyrie is the higher self of the individual that is in contact with gods.

It is a really interesting area to read about and Jenny Blain's book is great.

[potia]

Sept 4, 2009 21:50:14 GMT -1 Heron said:

So I have mixed feelings about it in the sense that it is built up into an oracular tradition in its own right rather than just describing the practice of certain prophetesses (and they did always seem to be women). But Wyrd and the Norns is another matter (though even here there has been a suggestion of an importation from the Greek Spinners of Fate) and I wonder, given your interest in The Cailleach, how you think she compares to Urðr?

From the little I have read on the subject so far Seidr seems to have a range of uses and not just the oracular tradition although that does seem to be the best known aspect of the developments.

How do I think the Cailleach compares to Urðr? To be honest I am not at all sure. I have come to know the Cailleach as deeply connected to Scotland. I am also of the opinion that Cailleach is just the most recent of her titles. I see her as a mother or grandmother type of personality but not a tender one most of the time. That's not to say she doesn't care but to me she very much seems to want me to learn and she can be a difficult teacher. If I master the lessons she has for me I do feel I am rewarded. She seems to have an interest in how I develop for some reason and to be honest I'm not always sure that is a good thing

I know very little of Urðr apart from her name and the idea that she is connected to all that has been. From that little amount I wouldn't anticipate her to take an interest in how someone develops in the now or the future. However as I say I really don't know much about her. As far as I know she's not considered a goddess in the heathen tradition either.

[megli]

Tiny note---'Cailleach' *as a title* indeed is recent. It's actually a Latin root borrowed into old Irish, with an Irish feminine ending added. So it's no older than 450AD: the earliest meaning was 'nun', the literal meaning being 'woman who wears a pallium, a veil'. (The Irish couldn't say the sound 'p-' at this stage and said 'c-' instead, bizarre though that may seem.) Then because elderly widows often became nuns, the word shifted to 'old woman'.

So you're absolutely right Potia, 'Cailleach' is a late title for a figure who I'm sure is much older.

PS If there was a welsh equivalent, she'd be the *Pelliob!

[Heron]

Sept 6, 2009 16:37:34 GMT -1 megli said:

Tiny note---'Cailleach' *as a title* indeed is recent. It's actually a Latin root borrowed into old Irish, with an Irish feminine ending added. So it's no older than 450AD: the earliest meaning was 'nun', the literal meaning being 'woman who wears a pallium, a veil'. (The Irish couldn't say the sound 'p-' at this stage and said 'c-' instead, bizarre though that may seem.) Then because elderly widows often became nuns, the word shifted to 'old woman'.

So you're absolutely right Potia, 'Cailleach' is a late title for a figure who I'm sure is much older.

PS If there was a welsh equivalent, she'd be the *Pelliob!

There is the Welsh 'Cyhoeraeth' (and variants) which seems to be like the Cailleach in some respects but in others more like a Banshee.

[potia]

I perhaps phrased things poorly in what I said about the title of Cailleach. I knew of the origin of the title - I think we've even talked about it before here The *Pelliob bit is new to me though - how would you say that?

I don't know if the being I know is tied to more than Scotland, she might be. I feel that there is a slight possibility (and again we've spoken about this before Megli) that she might have been known as Don in the past and in which case could well have been known much more widely.

If so it's also possible that the Welsh 'Cyhoeraeth' and others are connected to the same being - but then again those stories could of come in from Ireland too.

Either way she responds to me and others up here to the title Cailleach.

Not sure I'm expressing myself well here. I'm a bit tired

[megli]

I wouldn't bother trying to say 'Pelliob' Potia (though Pe-hlee-ob)---it's a purely hypothetical Brythonic form that I just dropped in for a larf!

[potia]

Sept 6, 2009 18:59:58 GMT -1 megli said:

I wouldn't bother trying to say 'Pelliob' Potia (though Pe-hlee-ob)---it's a purely hypothetical Brythonic form that I just dropped in for a larf!

'Sokay Megli, I was just curious as to how it might be said as I'm hopeless at pronouncing things - took me ages to learn how to say Caer Clud for example. I kept having to be corrected - got there in the end though.

[Deleted]

Hi Potia,

Sounds like a very interesting talk - I'm not sure if I've come across Malcolm Campbell before - has he published anything? My group have been experimenting with and working seidr for many years, and it seems that everyone has a different take on what it is, especially since the primary sources only really hint at what may have occurred - essentially we simply think of it as Scandinavian witchcraft. We in particular focus on the oracular seership aspect (loosely based on the High Seat rituals pioneered by the Hrafnar group in the US), which we have evolved over the years to a very nice and powerful technique - though, not for the feint hearted!

We are also interested in following up the concept of Awenyddion (from Gerald of Wales), since the description sounds very similar to some of the concepts we think of as being associated with seidr (ecstatic trance states, shaking, etc.). Does anyone have any experience of this? We have experimented with it a few times, with some very interesting results, but it still requires some work, so any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

[potia]

Hi Tyfach

I don't think Malcolm is published but I believe he is very highly respected by those who know him. Jenny Blain mentions him in her book Nine Worlds of Seid-Magic and quotes him on p121 in the chapter on Ergi Seidmen. It was a very interesting talk, well prepared and well presented.

I'd be very interested in hearing more of your work with Seidr if you are willing to share.

[Deleted]

Hi Potia - yep, more than happy to share - but not tonight...I needs my bed! Anything in particular you'd like to know?

[potia]

Sept 8, 2009 21:09:26 GMT -1 @tyfach said:

Hi Potia - yep, more than happy to share - but not tonight...I needs my bed! Anything in particular you'd like to know?

I'm particularly interested in how you structure the rites and if you practice seidr only within your group or sometimes for a wider community?

You also mention it's not for the faint-hearted and I can appreciate that but could you be a bit more specific on that aspect either here or via PM if you'd prefer

[Deleted]

Hi Potia,

Sure - completely happy to share with the community - my wife (Katie Gerrard) who is the main creative force behind our seidr is of the opinion that the technique should be out there for people to use, play with and make their own. She's currently writing a book about it, which will hopefully be finished sometime soon after our small daughter grows out of demanding Pingu on iplayer every time she sees an open laptop! A taster for this was recently published in the Avalonia anthology, Priestesses, Pythonesses, Sibyls (D'Este et al, 2009).

In brief, because this is an oracular rite, the participants are first asked to consider a question they may ask of the ancestors. There are generally two officers: the seer and the guide. The seer will be the one who undergoes deep trance and journeys to the underworld (Helheim), the guide assists and keeps an eye on the energy. The space is sanctified with salt&water & incense, and the circle cast by invoking/evoking the the Disir of those present.

Three Deities are invoked: Freya, Odin and Hel, the latter being asked for permission to enter her realm, and safe passage therein. Then the drumming starts. Lots of it. And dancing. Lots of it. The aim is for everyone to raise as much energy as possible and enter a light trance state. As the energy begins to peak, the guide signals for the drumming to quieten down, gets everyone to sit and brings the energy down (think of it as putting a lid on a boiling pan and setting to simmer).

The guide tells the participants to visualise Yggdrasil passing through the centre of the circle, with a spiral staircase running along the outside. Down this staircase are visualised the various ancestors travelling down to Helheim (for those ancestors not resident there already). Then the vardlokkur starts.

Everyone sits and sways and chants the vardlokkur (spirit charm):
The gate is open, the time has come, the seer's work must be done.
This breaks down into a spinning mantra as the work progresses.

Here, the seer begins to get themselves into the appropriate trance state through swaying and clapping and chanting. When the guide thinks they are ready, they once again quiet down the group, and dresses the seer in a cloak, with hood pulled far over eyes, an amber necklace and a staff, then quietly leads the seer on a guided meditation down through the Earth to the gates of Helheim. Finally pulling them though gates of fire & ice, fire & ice. All the time, the participants continue the vardlokkur quietly, and maintain their light trance state. In this version, only the seer travels to Helheim, and from this point is only refereed to as 'the seer'.

The seer is then placed on the High Seat (ours is a low chair covered with a reindeer skin), and they describe what they see. Then the guide asks them if they are ready for the first question. Participants can then come forward (via the guide) and ask their question of the seer, who then relays whatever messages, images or sensations they receive. The cloak hood, constant chant and general disorientation reduces the 'Barnum effect', and the results can be extremely interesting.

The guide enquires of the seer if they are ready for the next question and so on until it is time to leave (the seer is usually very aware when that is!). Then the reverse journey is made and everyone calls the seers real name to 'bring them back'. The ancestors ascend the staircase and bread & drink blessed and shared. There is then time for discussion and grounding before thanking the Deities and closing the space.

Right, that is very much longer and more detailed than I intended, but hopefully it makes sense! Any thoughts or comments?

[redraven]

Thanks for that Tyfach. May I ask how much of that ritual is based from historical sources and how much from experiential?

RR

[potia]

No time to digest this properly at present but I will soon. Thanks so much for sharing in such detail

[Deleted]

>>RR It's almost all construct, with elements & motifs pilfered from various sources: Eric The Red Saga; Seigfreid's Journey to Hel; the ecstatic dancing from Voudou; Odysseus' journey to Hades from The Odyssey; very large amounts of inspiration and experimentation and many, many long conversations, including some very key points suggested by a very respected (and now sadly missed) Swedish academic.

We're primarily a practical group, and even though we've researched all of the primary and most of the secondary sources we could lay our hands on, we're not reconstructualists; what is important is what works for us. This is only what we consider to be the core rite, as it exists at the moment, and it is the product of many years of reiteration and experimentation; this time next year, it will probably be slightly different.

>>Potia - no probs - I wrote far more than I intended - I only wanted to sketch a brief outline!

[potia]

Hi Tyfach,

Finally finished reading Jenny Blain's Nine World of Seidr MAgic and have time to read through your description again. From what I have been reading it is a similar style of rite to that performed by others using seidr for oracular purposes - which make sense as I understand that Hrafnar group technique has been widely shared and taught now and you mention your group's rite is also loosely based on their work.

If I read this correctly the seer journeys into Helheim but no-one else descends even to the gates? Also this is not a rite where the seer is possessed in any way?

May I ask how the seer usually feels after the session? Do they usually find it hard to come back or easy? Does the guide have a monitoring role as well i.e. can they bring things to a close more swiftly if they feel something is not going so well?

Are you willing to say if the seer is usually the same person or does the position vary quite a lot within the group?

Final question Have your group ever experimented with doing something of this nature in a different cosmology or do you stick with the heathen one?

Thanks

[Deleted]

Sept 7, 2009 20:47:44 GMT -1 @tyfach said:

We are also interested in following up the concept of Awenyddion (from Gerald of Wales), since the description sounds very similar to some of the concepts we think of as being associated with seidr (ecstatic trance states, shaking, etc.). Does anyone have any experience of this? We have experimented with it a few times, with some very interesting results, but it still requires some work, so any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

This is a topic of some interest to me also and something that I have done some experimentation with. My background in trance induction (as far as training goes) is linked with the methods taught at Michael Harner's 'Foundation for Shamanic Studies', something I looked into to better control and direct certain spontaneous experiences I had. Core Shamanism seems to me to provide a good underlying training to then apply to trying to reconstruct more culturally specific practices such as seidr and those of the awenydd. Unlike the Awenyddion in Gerald's account I certainly don't fall into a trance immediately upon being consulted, but I have a method I use which involves speaking (sometimes partially incomprehensibly) during a trance in answer to a question which is inspired by the account. Although with the limited information available I may be doing things differently than these people did in the past innovations inspired by such traditional accounts certainly seem more valuable to me than doing nothing with them at all. I'd be interested to talk further with anyone else trying to do this sort of thing.