Post by Lee on Sept 19, 2010 21:07:17 GMT -1
Littleraven:
The other day I caught a few minutes of ERO on Radio 4s 'Beyond Belief', the subject was 'Love'.
Granted I only caught a snippet and Listen Again is a necessity, but the thing that stood out for me was EROs thinking was nowhere near as deep as the Christian Theologian and Muslim Scholar I also heard.
I'm not going to write further on this until I've listened, but as has already been stated we need to think about these things to develop something of 'substance'. So, from the Brythonic perspective, what is love?
Lee:
im going to be a little bleak here;
love is a chemical, neurological and physiological interaction which has enabled human beings to function as groups. we love our offspring unconditionally and this is huge evolutionary advantage as it means we do everything to protect and look after them. love between a couple keeps them together and help raise the kids. love is a fantastic evolutionary innovation.
Potia:
I'm no deep scholar of these matters but Love is very important to my path and I haven't heard the programe you refer to either. to me Love is one of my foundation stones, one of the few things that with all the changes I have gone through remains an essential part of my beliefs.
I consider love to have several facets that our English word does not do justice too. The Greek words of philios, eros and agape are ones I have long found to be extremly useful in helping me expand on the ideas connected to Love I have.
Is this Brythonic? - I don't know but love in all it's complex meanings is very important in my life. I do find it hard to put into words in writing though.
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The above was written before I saw Lee's response. I do recognise that there are aspects of particularly physical love that are predominately about chemistry and evolutionary instinct but I honestly believe that there is much more to Love than that.
Tegernacus:
I'm with Lee. Hormones and pheromones force us to mate, then bonding is psychologically triggered so that both parents stick around and raise the offspring. Wears off after approx 7 years. Of course, most people confuse the two.
That's not to say that you can't bond, have friendships, deep mutual respect for others. But that "love" thing is a drive to reproduce/mate. Even if you don't want kids, for whatever reason, that bonding thing can still kick in. Only without kids around to justify it, it weighs heavier.
wow... happy Valentines day! I'm all depressed now lol
Arth:
What is love? A wife, two kids and a mortgage. Seriously I would say a emotional response between a person and another object/person. Like a magnate where two things are attracted.
Tegernacus:
what is love? love is the parent who goes without food so their child can eat. love is standing in the way of a bullet so your friend doesn't have to. love is someone giving up all their worldly possessions and going into a monastery. or 300 warriors, for love of their country, facing 10,000 invaders . and countless other self-less acts. so love is the inner prompting that someone, or something, or some place other than you is more important to you than you are.
Megli:
I'm with Potia. We have one rather crap word in English to describe a network of complex states and emotions, albeit related ones. I can't deny that I love my best friend deeply, and would die for her in an instant, but that's not the same as the romantic love I felt for my fiance, which eventually, sadly, petered out. Still less is that word useful to describe subtle and powerful mystical states or the emotion of rapture I feel when I contemplate Brighid.
On the latter, incidentally, the Anthony and the Johnsons song 'Daylight and the Sun' ends with the refrain:
You gave me this
and your fire
becomes a kiss
- I've been using it as a mantra all month, since Imbolc.
Redraven:
I think there is a definate difference between the concept of physical love and the love spoke of by mystics. Love, today, is primarily to do with the physicality aspect as spoke of earlier. My own view is that in it's truest sense, the word Love is more to do with sharing of a positive intention with other humans, not necessarily related, and the consequences arising from that interaction. I think that Love was originally thought of as a mechanism to provide what was lacking in their lives, to a certain extent. As for a Brythonic aspect, I suspect that would have a lot to do with whether their particular deities were held in awe and fear, or respect and love. So the answer would appear to be dependent upon whom one was trying to communicate with. As to the bonds between people, I doubt they would have been much different from other parts of Europe at that time. Do we think that they had much time or inclination to consider the concept?
Blackbird:
I agree that 'love' is more complex than romantic/sexual stuff.
It is bound up with other things like joy - I love to play the harp because of the pleasure it gives me. And joy is something akin to that intense religious love. But also, love is bound up with things like honour and duty. Love makes us want to fulfill those obligations.
A duty done without love is drudgery - but duty done out of love is fulfilling. Same with honour. Without love, it is empty.
The other day I caught a few minutes of ERO on Radio 4s 'Beyond Belief', the subject was 'Love'.
Granted I only caught a snippet and Listen Again is a necessity, but the thing that stood out for me was EROs thinking was nowhere near as deep as the Christian Theologian and Muslim Scholar I also heard.
I'm not going to write further on this until I've listened, but as has already been stated we need to think about these things to develop something of 'substance'. So, from the Brythonic perspective, what is love?
Lee:
im going to be a little bleak here;
love is a chemical, neurological and physiological interaction which has enabled human beings to function as groups. we love our offspring unconditionally and this is huge evolutionary advantage as it means we do everything to protect and look after them. love between a couple keeps them together and help raise the kids. love is a fantastic evolutionary innovation.
Potia:
I'm no deep scholar of these matters but Love is very important to my path and I haven't heard the programe you refer to either. to me Love is one of my foundation stones, one of the few things that with all the changes I have gone through remains an essential part of my beliefs.
I consider love to have several facets that our English word does not do justice too. The Greek words of philios, eros and agape are ones I have long found to be extremly useful in helping me expand on the ideas connected to Love I have.
Is this Brythonic? - I don't know but love in all it's complex meanings is very important in my life. I do find it hard to put into words in writing though.
-------------
The above was written before I saw Lee's response. I do recognise that there are aspects of particularly physical love that are predominately about chemistry and evolutionary instinct but I honestly believe that there is much more to Love than that.
Tegernacus:
I'm with Lee. Hormones and pheromones force us to mate, then bonding is psychologically triggered so that both parents stick around and raise the offspring. Wears off after approx 7 years. Of course, most people confuse the two.
That's not to say that you can't bond, have friendships, deep mutual respect for others. But that "love" thing is a drive to reproduce/mate. Even if you don't want kids, for whatever reason, that bonding thing can still kick in. Only without kids around to justify it, it weighs heavier.
wow... happy Valentines day! I'm all depressed now lol
Arth:
What is love? A wife, two kids and a mortgage. Seriously I would say a emotional response between a person and another object/person. Like a magnate where two things are attracted.
Tegernacus:
what is love? love is the parent who goes without food so their child can eat. love is standing in the way of a bullet so your friend doesn't have to. love is someone giving up all their worldly possessions and going into a monastery. or 300 warriors, for love of their country, facing 10,000 invaders . and countless other self-less acts. so love is the inner prompting that someone, or something, or some place other than you is more important to you than you are.
Megli:
I'm with Potia. We have one rather crap word in English to describe a network of complex states and emotions, albeit related ones. I can't deny that I love my best friend deeply, and would die for her in an instant, but that's not the same as the romantic love I felt for my fiance, which eventually, sadly, petered out. Still less is that word useful to describe subtle and powerful mystical states or the emotion of rapture I feel when I contemplate Brighid.
On the latter, incidentally, the Anthony and the Johnsons song 'Daylight and the Sun' ends with the refrain:
You gave me this
and your fire
becomes a kiss
- I've been using it as a mantra all month, since Imbolc.
Redraven:
I think there is a definate difference between the concept of physical love and the love spoke of by mystics. Love, today, is primarily to do with the physicality aspect as spoke of earlier. My own view is that in it's truest sense, the word Love is more to do with sharing of a positive intention with other humans, not necessarily related, and the consequences arising from that interaction. I think that Love was originally thought of as a mechanism to provide what was lacking in their lives, to a certain extent. As for a Brythonic aspect, I suspect that would have a lot to do with whether their particular deities were held in awe and fear, or respect and love. So the answer would appear to be dependent upon whom one was trying to communicate with. As to the bonds between people, I doubt they would have been much different from other parts of Europe at that time. Do we think that they had much time or inclination to consider the concept?
Blackbird:
I agree that 'love' is more complex than romantic/sexual stuff.
It is bound up with other things like joy - I love to play the harp because of the pleasure it gives me. And joy is something akin to that intense religious love. But also, love is bound up with things like honour and duty. Love makes us want to fulfill those obligations.
A duty done without love is drudgery - but duty done out of love is fulfilling. Same with honour. Without love, it is empty.