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Post by dreamguardian on Dec 30, 2010 21:00:08 GMT -1
Wicca is essentially the Oxford Movement at a nudist camp. ;D
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Post by potia on Dec 30, 2010 21:20:26 GMT -1
Wicca is essentially the Oxford Movement at a nudist camp. I thought we tried not to do sweeping generalisations that can't really be backed up by facts here? While Wicca is not the path for me I know a fair number of Wiccans of a wide range of types and opinions many of whom I respect a great deal. Some would probably have a fit of giggles over that description but others would be upset by it. Do we really need to go round upsetting people from every other path?
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Post by potia on Dec 30, 2010 21:26:43 GMT -1
My point really is that there will be lots of people that have a relationship with one or multiple deities but that wouldn't want to use the term patron because of some of the connotations of its general use. In that instance how would you describe that kind of relationship? Would you be a devotee of 'X', or a follower of 'X'? I ask because my own relationship with deities is still developing but I'm not comfortable claiming patronage, unless it was made blindingly clear that this was the case (which it isn't). In answer to your question Nellie I don't think we have any particular ways in which we describe our relationships with deities. Personally I tend to simply talk about getting to know a particular deity or developing a relationship with them.
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Post by Tegernacus on Dec 30, 2010 21:39:29 GMT -1
I thought you could have Patron of metalworkers, Matron of weavers, like Patron Saint of Sailors. Never heard of individual patronage though.
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Post by megli on Dec 30, 2010 21:44:28 GMT -1
Wicca is essentially the Oxford Movement at a nudist camp. I thought we tried not to do sweeping generalisations that can't really be backed up by facts here? While Wicca is not the path for me I know a fair number of Wiccans of a wide range of types and opinions many of whom I respect a great deal. Some would probably have a fit of giggles over that description but others would be upset by it. Do we really need to go round upsetting people from every other path? Satire with a biggish grain of truth, perhaps? I don't think it's really insulting as a description. Satirical and sweeping, but a fairly good-natured thumbnail I think.
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Post by Lee on Dec 31, 2010 0:26:12 GMT -1
Satire with a biggish grain of truth, perhaps? I don't think it's really insulting as a description. Satirical and sweeping, but a fairly good-natured thumbnail I think. ye gods... very astute it is very much early Wicca down to a tee (and that's coming from a Wiccan - 2nd degree Gard dontcha know )
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2010 5:31:16 GMT -1
The one thing I would wish to point out is that in my personal observations of Deity, I do not worship. The Gods who made iron and storms did not make slaves. I connect not genuflect. As a genuine question, what do you do with regard the gods? Some of our members here simply don't really have relevant relationships with gods at all, interacting primarily with land spirits. Thank yo for the question Deiniol, the answer is a little long. Some time ago I wrote a deeply personal article explaining my relationship with the divine. If you like you can read it here; hubpages.com/hub/My-Gods
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Post by Adam on Dec 31, 2010 16:24:47 GMT -1
I thought you could have Patron of metalworkers, Matron of weavers, like Patron Saint of Sailors. Never heard of individual patronage though. I would go with that... Patron/matron seems to have undergone the same neopagan passage that totem has undergone in the new age scene... that it has gone from a term that applies to a tutelary spirit of deity in a relationship with a group, to one that is identified with and by the individual... the "me"ness of it all* If Rigantona can be said in any way to be my Matron deity, or my Totem (though the cultural mismatch grates a little)... it is by virtue of my membership of a group over which She has a tutelary relationship, whatever relationship I personally may have with Her. The fact that she is my Matron deity in this sense clearly impacts on our personal relationship, but the matronage is defined by our personal relationship. In fact, our core values documents reflect this and is consistent with this useage. "We are the Teguloktos Rigantona; the Family of Rigantona. She is the goddess of the Grey Mare, our matron and the one who protects our family". *edited to add - there is the singular usage whereby a poet may have a patron in a Lord or Lady for example... but said Lord or Lady will have many people under their patronage... the poet by virtue of their role
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Post by deiniol on Dec 31, 2010 20:44:53 GMT -1
Wicca is essentially the Oxford Movement at a nudist camp. I thought we tried not to do sweeping generalisations that can't really be backed up by facts here? While Wicca is not the path for me I know a fair number of Wiccans of a wide range of types and opinions many of whom I respect a great deal. Some would probably have a fit of giggles over that description but others would be upset by it. Do we really need to go round upsetting people from every other path? I am sorry if any offense or upset has been caused: it certainly wasn't my intent! Gentle teasing, certainly, but not offense. (It's actually set me to thinking what a pithy one-liner summing us up would be: I've gotten no further than Megli's "Druidry without Bobcat, bedsheets and buggering about.") I like Wicca, and Wiccans! I'm very lucky that the handful I'm acquainted with are all educated, rational and deeply spiritual people, with a good knowledge of their religion's history. One woman I know actually got seriously involved in Wicca after reading Hutton: she said that she found the "real history" was far more evocative than the discredited pseudo-history.
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Post by potia on Dec 31, 2010 23:44:11 GMT -1
I thought we tried not to do sweeping generalisations that can't really be backed up by facts here? While Wicca is not the path for me I know a fair number of Wiccans of a wide range of types and opinions many of whom I respect a great deal. Some would probably have a fit of giggles over that description but others would be upset by it. Do we really need to go round upsetting people from every other path? I am sorry if any offense or upset has been caused: it certainly wasn't my intent! Gentle teasing, certainly, but not offense. (It's actually set me to thinking what a pithy one-liner summing us up would be: I've gotten no further than Megli's "Druidry without Bobcat, bedsheets and buggering about.") I like Wicca, and Wiccans! I'm very lucky that the handful I'm acquainted with are all educated, rational and deeply spiritual people, with a good knowledge of their religion's history. One woman I know actually got seriously involved in Wicca after reading Hutton: she said that she found the "real history" was far more evocative than the discredited pseudo-history. You caught me in a bad mood Deiniol and it irritated perhaps more than it should. Hugs.
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Post by arth_frown on Jan 2, 2011 15:32:50 GMT -1
I thought we tried not to do sweeping generalisations that can't really be backed up by facts here? While Wicca is not the path for me I know a fair number of Wiccans of a wide range of types and opinions many of whom I respect a great deal. Some would probably have a fit of giggles over that description but others would be upset by it. Do we really need to go round upsetting people from every other path? I am sorry if any offense or upset has been caused: it certainly wasn't my intent! Gentle teasing, certainly, but not offense. (It's actually set me to thinking what a pithy one-liner summing us up would be: I've gotten no further than Megli's "Druidry without Bobcat, bedsheets and buggering about.") I like Wicca, and Wiccans! I'm very lucky that the handful I'm acquainted with are all educated, rational and deeply spiritual people, with a good knowledge of their religion's history. One woman I know actually got seriously involved in Wicca after reading Hutton: she said that she found the "real history" was far more evocative than the discredited pseudo-history. Maybe we need a tongue in cheek emoticon
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Post by Rion on Jan 2, 2011 19:20:18 GMT -1
I believe " " is generally considered appropriate...
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Post by Lee on Jan 3, 2011 15:46:17 GMT -1
i think the notion of patron/matron has entered the "New Pagan's first forays checklist" as one of those things you need to get - often via getting others to decide for you on an internet forum.
i think the notion of a patron is viable, in much the dame way as there are patron saints etc. i have come to the conclusion this week that Ambactonos would be my families patron deity of he was still in fashion having done some uncovering of family history etc over the christmas hols. he might be able to offer me some advice on how my great grandfather became so fabulously wealthy and was able to buy 4 farms 100 years ago. a little of that magic with my allotment and i will be on to a winner.
Personal patrons/matronsl; yeah i can see that, such as Deiniol and Grannos. I just think it is something that comes with time (a lot) and work and isnt something that is picked up at the beginning.
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