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Post by Adam on Feb 22, 2011 18:27:36 GMT -1
I'm trying to get a group together in my area to study and practice techniques of quarterstaff combat, largely to be recreated from existing 16th and 17th century manuals (so not strictly Brythonic, but definitely folkloric :-) )
I'm avoiding the British Quarterstaff Association because I'm not keen on their "animal stances" which seem to have no authentic basis (http://www.quarterstaff.org/about/six.html) and the faux oriental feel I get from their site (http://www.quarterstaff.org/about/about1.html), so I wondered
a) if anyone had any contact or experience with group that seriously worked within a western martial art tradition, and
b) if anyone had any advice on where to obtain the wood to make a decent quarterstaff... my understanding is that it is best cut from an oak or a hawthorn sapling both straight and a few inches (12 maybe) taller than oneself, and 2.5 inches in diameter at the thinnest point. I assume that forest owners might not take too kindly to me marching in and lopping them down, so where might be a good source?
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Post by arth_frown on Feb 22, 2011 18:49:51 GMT -1
best place to find a staff is along public footpath. Bring a fold up saw. At least you will be keeping the footpath open  |
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Post by Adam on Feb 22, 2011 18:54:55 GMT -1
didn't think of that :-)
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Post by Francis on Feb 22, 2011 19:40:37 GMT -1
b) if anyone had any advice on where to obtain the wood to make a decent quarterstaff... my understanding is that it is best cut from an oak or a hawthorn sapling both straight and a few inches (12 maybe) taller than oneself, and 2.5 inches in diameter at the thinnest point. I assume that forest owners might not take too kindly to me marching in and lopping them down, so where might be a good source? I think you'd struggle to find a straight hawthorn staff of those dimensions - it's just not the way they grow. Could they have meant blackthorn I wonder? - with a lot of looking you might just find blackthorn of those dimensions growing wild. You'll find oak of that size with less dificulty - but at such a small diameter it would be almost all sap wood, and just not tough enough (even with seasoning and fire hardening) to offer a reasonable lifespan as a quarterstaff. By far and away your best bet would be Ash or sweet chestnut. It might interest you to note that our forebears wouldn't have gone looking in 'wild' wood for a staff of those diameters but would have obtained them from coppice. Coppice regrowth is much faster and straighter than a sap[ling growing from a seed usually is, and is much better suited to your purpose. I believe those quarterstaffs made from oak in the past would have be shaped from a much larger piece of timber with a drawknife, and would have been heartwood. As to where to get one - your best bet would be to come and visit me In an ideal world sooner rather than later - you want to harvest poles for this purpose when the sap is down. Ash and sweet chestnut are relatively late in the spring in terms of when their sap starts to rise, but even so I wouldn't want to leave it beyond late March. Have you come across this bloke? www.iceandfire.org.uk/Well thought of by many, but I didn't "gel" with him at all..... (Technically to cut one from a public footpath the tree must be growing on the path not just over hanging it- but I don't suppose many folk would mind? Although I think you'd have a very very long walk to find what you desired!) |
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Post by deiniol on Feb 22, 2011 22:09:07 GMT -1
Have you come across this bloke? www.iceandfire.org.uk/Well thought of by many, but I didn't "gel" with him at all..... You know, I've looked around that site and I really don't get it. Some kind of runic martial arts? |
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Post by arth_frown on Feb 23, 2011 8:17:13 GMT -1
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Post by Adam on Feb 23, 2011 8:59:55 GMT -1
I think you'd struggle to find a straight hawthorn staff of those dimensions - it's just not the way they grow. Could they have meant blackthorn I wonder? - with a lot of looking you might just find blackthorn of those dimensions growing wild. You'll find oak of that size with less dificulty - but at such a small diameter it would be almost all sap wood, and just not tough enough (even with seasoning and fire hardening) to offer a reasonable lifespan as a quarterstaff. By far and away your best bet would be Ash or sweet chestnut. It might interest you to note that our forebears wouldn't have gone looking in 'wild' wood for a staff of those diameters but would have obtained them from coppice. Coppice regrowth is much faster and straighter than a sap[ling growing from a seed usually is, and is much better suited to your purpose. I believe those quarterstaffs made from oak in the past would have be shaped from a much larger piece of timber with a drawknife, and would have been heartwood. As to where to get one - your best bet would be to come and visit me In an ideal world sooner rather than later - you want to harvest poles for this purpose when the sap is down. Ash and sweet chestnut are relatively late in the spring in terms of when their sap starts to rise, but even so I wouldn't want to leave it beyond late March. Have you come across this bloke? www.iceandfire.org.uk/Well thought of by many, but I didn't "gel" with him at all..... (Technically to cut one from a public footpath the tree must be growing on the path not just over hanging it- but I don't suppose many folk would mind? Although I think you'd have a very very long walk to find what you desired!) SEE.... I knew I was asking the right people :-) I knew about the sap rising but hadn't twigged <groan> regarding the coppicing... make perfect sense... that's where yer book larning gets ye :-D I would love to make it down, but currently my work schedule leaves me concerned that I won't be leaving my house until April, let alone get down to Wales... if I get a chance though I will take you up on your kind offer Re: Mr ice and fire... the generous side of me sees no wrong in adapting and combining methods and systems, in order to see what comes out of it. The rest and greater part of me just thinks bollocks ;-) ... fighting systems are fighting systems... if a trainer adopts animal or alphabet etc names for stances and moves, it will simply be because it has mnenomic value... this just smacks of opportunistic syncretism to me, as a result of watching too many episodes of(the admittedley epic) Kung Fu with David carradine :-) Unsubstantiated claims to a 44 generation tradition (that looks like Tai Ch with Nordic trappings) tend to trip my bullshitometer... I like this quote on a martial arts forum, found this morning when trying to find some evidence to substantiate the claim www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58803 |
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Post by Blackbird on Mar 2, 2011 13:41:44 GMT -1
I spent about 10 years teaching European Martial arts  Passed the baton onto one of my students a couple of years ago, and he's done amazing things, really developing the various systems. I agree, ash poles are by far the best, though if you want an ephemeral staff, you could pretty much use anything and replace it when it breaks. If you're wanting to start up a class, it may be easier to use the Japanese bo staffs, which are cheap and easy for people to get hold of. |
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Post by Adam on Mar 3, 2011 6:26:18 GMT -1
Thanks for that BB... out of the group that are interested we have no-one formally trained in European Martial Arts... one of the reasons for seeing if this is a goer is that there doesn't seem to be any training in the area... the plan is to extract what can be extracted from Silver and Swetnam plus old boy scout manuals on the subject... in your opinion is such a reconstruction process doable? And (obviously not knowing if you are affiliated or not) what are your thoughts regarding the adoption within the British Quarterstaff Associate of animal stances and moves?
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Post by Blackbird on Mar 3, 2011 11:09:25 GMT -1
Yes, it's definitely do-able! I was never affiliated with any group, and I'm not really familiar with this animal stances thing. I imagine that it's made up, perhaps influenced by the Chinese animal techniques? Nothing wrong with made up stuff, as long as it works My approach has always been to get to sparring asap. Try the weapon out, see what it does. See where it is most effective. _Then_ go back to the sources. Once you have a foundation knowledge of your weapon, you'll find the old manuals far more easier to understand. We used a semi-contact sparring method, which involves lots of control. No protection was worn (aside from gloves), genuine weight and material (but blunted, in the case of swords etc.) weapons were used. For example, foam swords might seem like a good idea to prevent injuries, but they really don't behave like the real thing! Begin by sparring in slow motion, while you get used to the weapon and the control. Do lots of striking exercises to build up strength, technique and the ability to pull a full speed blow. (i.e., so that eventually when sparring, you can put in a fast, powerful strike, but kill the power just before it makes contact, then tap lightly onto your opponent.) Obviously, you never land a head or face shot though! Another fun, but expensive, option is to invest in lightweight body armour and try sparring at full speed with full power blows. Great fun! |
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Post by Adam on Mar 3, 2011 11:18:07 GMT -1
ma'am, you're a diamond...
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