Some Heathen values and their implications

[Brochfael]

Bellows, H.A. (Trans) (1991) The Poetic Edda.

Havamal Stanzas 77 & 78 (76 & 77 in other editions) state:

77: Cattle die, and kinsmen Die

And so one dies one's self

But a noble name will never die

If good renown one gets

78. Cattle die, and kinsmen die

And so one dies one's self

One thing I know that never dies:

The fame of a dead man's deeds



I'm inclined to believe that this indicates an aspiration in Northern European Pagans to achieve, through fame, an immortality of memory and thus that to be remembered was something that most people in this culture would desire

How might this colour agitation by some in the Pagan community for reburial of ancient Human remains if archaeology is now the only way these people can be remembered?

[potia]

With older human remains the reality is that we are unlikely to know the name of the individual unless there is something with them that indicates clearly who is buried there. Even less likely are we to know of their deeds but archaeology can tell us something of who they were and how they lived. The various scientific developments in related fields mean that we can get an idea of what they looked like, where they grew up, what they ate and drank, even to some extent what illnesses they may have suffered from. All these factors mean they become more of an individual in our minds and they live on.

For those of the cultures that the Havamal was important to I think this would have been much more important than having your unknown remains tucked into a hole somewhere no matter how well meaning the re-burial rite.

[Lee]

I concur Broch, memory is probably the main immortality people aimed for, you find a similar thing in the Epic of Gilgamesh (man searches for immortality, only to find it is only truly achievable through deeds and actions)

[Blackbird]

And in the Tain, of course!

"Cathba the druid was with his son, namely Conchobar son of Ness, imparting learning to his pupils in the north-east of Emain, and eight eager pupils in the class of druidic cunning were with him. That is the number that Cathba instructed. One of them questioned his teacher, what fortune and presage might there be for the day they were in, whether it was good or whether it was ill. Then spake Cathba: "The little boy that takes arms-- this day shall be splendid and renowned for deeds of arms above the youths of Erin land the tales of his high deeds shall be told forever, but he shall be short-lived and fleeting."

The idea of your name living on in the minds of men is obviously the important thing here!

[Tegernacus]

yes! But more than that. It's making sure the name of the "famous person" lives on so you can stake a claim to be related to him/her!

"I am the 20th decendent of Lord McCool who slew 400 in a single day at the battle of Mount Doom! Fear me!"

So the name and legend lives on, but not for altogether altruistic reasons

[Tegernacus]

In Wales, in particular, genealogy was/is amazingly important. Remember, chieftains would employ people just to remember their genealogy! Even today, every Welshman worth his salt can trace his lineage to Magnus Maximus

It is all tied up with identity, with tribe.