|
Nodens
Apr 21, 2011 12:09:37 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Apr 21, 2011 12:09:37 GMT -1
I've been having a peep through some of Heron's old blog posts and there was something that caught my attention in the comments section. Nodens = Tigernonos? If so what is His connection to Rhiannon? Nodens = sea God? (I'm thinking of the iconography at Lydney) Nodens = (tentatively!) Is there some remnant of him reflected in Dylan? Nodens = sacred Kingship? (Nuada) If so is there any echo of Nodens in the stories of Arthur (please don't bash me too hard if this is plain crazy!!)? Lastly, is there a connection between lord of otherworld and sea in celtic thinking? Does anyone have any thoughts?
|
|
|
Nodens
Apr 21, 2011 15:09:01 GMT -1
Post by Lee on Apr 21, 2011 15:09:01 GMT -1
Nodens = Tigernonos? If so what is His connection to Rhiannon? i would go with that, as to connection; well it seem there is 'something' there if we take the first branch as holding someting of a survival. it just isnt too easy to pull out. Nodens = sea God? (I'm thinking of the iconography at Lydney) yep, though, i thinkof him more in broader terms, no a ea god as such, more the concept of seas and oceans. not in a human friendly sort of way, ore the big, scary seas. Nodens = (tentatively!) Is there some remnant of him reflected in Dylan? i dont think so, Dylan is perhaps the more friendly seas, the closer to shore fisherman's friend kind of way. Lastly, is there a connection between lord of otherworld and sea in celtic thinking? i have ben thinking that myself dont know if there is a connection as such, though there is that ninth wave thing in irish myth.
|
|
|
Nodens
Apr 21, 2011 15:38:07 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Apr 21, 2011 15:38:07 GMT -1
I know trying to pull mythology out of the Mabinogion is a bit of a hiding to nothing, but I've been trying anyway lol. It's the two husbands thing. One one hand we have Rhiannon married to a one time Lord of the Otherworld (underworld?) and also connected to 2 deities that have sea connections. While I understand that multiple husbands in entirely acceptable for a goddess of sovreignity, surely it would only be mortal husbands? If you try to pull out some mythic echos how do you reconcile the two husbands (3 connections including Tigernonos) unless maybe they are all echos of the same diety? Not trying to convince anyone with this argument, just trying to figure it out for myself! Or could Nodens/Tigernonos have once been seen as a brother sort of figure to Rigantona instead of a consort?? I've never sensed Nodens, so I can't find any answers via experience of Him. As to Dylan, I was wondering about the tidal wave. The Severn bore is associated with Nodens, but I think I remember reading that Dylan had something to do with flooding in a river sense? Is that nonsense? Is there likely to be any connection to Maponus whos prison was only accessible through a tidal river (read that here - www.mabinogion.info/pwyll.htm ) - as Pryderi is rescued by manawydan, a mabon-esque figure rescued by a sea god figure. I realise there's no evidense for anything like this but i can't help myself from wondering these odd things. Is there anything of Nodens half remembered here or am I reading too much into this? ;D (wouldn't be the first time i've gotten carried away with myself!!!)
|
|
|
Nodens
Apr 21, 2011 21:21:13 GMT -1
Post by Heron on Apr 21, 2011 21:21:13 GMT -1
I've been having a peep through some of Heron's old blog posts and there was something that caught my attention in the comments section. Nodens = Tigernonos? If so what is His connection to Rhiannon? Attempts to link Nodens with Tigernonos stem from the location of his shrine at Lydney on the Severn and the territory of Teyrnon (<Tigernonos) in Y Mabinogi, who is the foster father of Pryderi. The scholar John Koch attempted to make the link, for summary references see: homepage.mac.com/teyrnon/Rhiannon/ManawydanPages.htmlNot sure about this Only, I think, in the sense that Arthur was a magnet absorbing the attributes of many earlier figures Certainly ManannĂ¡n in the irish tradition was both a sea god and a lord of the Otherworld.
|
|
|
Nodens
Apr 22, 2011 8:42:56 GMT -1
Post by nellie on Apr 22, 2011 8:42:56 GMT -1
Thanks for that link Heron. I was thinking about this last night (sort of!). I was thinking of one of the stories I read about Cloidhna in which She falls asleep on the beach (after running off with her beautiful human lover) and the sea/Manannan rolls in and carries Her back to the otherworld. As you say in these tales Manannan is both the lord of the otherworld and the sea. (At which point my wine started smelling of live kelp if that's relevant - or possibly an indication that the wine was going to my head ) Could the ocean imagery of Nodens then be a reference to the otherworld sea rather than the literal sea, in the way that the dead often depart across the sea to the otherworld in some stories?
|
|