Creiddylad (a cry for information!)

[nellie]

Is this character likely to have divine origins, being the daughter, sister and beloved of gods?

Are there any suggestions of the etymology of Creiddylad?

Much thanks for ANY information

[Heron]

Usually equated with Cordelia daughter of Lear in Shakespeare's play , and of Llyr (Lludd, Nudd, Nodens?)according to Geoffrey of Monmouth who says she buried her father in a vault which had originally been an underground shrine to Janus. Robert Graves equates her to Blodeuwedd. The story in Culhwch ac Olwen where Gwynn ap Nudd and Gwythyr fab Greidawl fight over her on 1 May every year, and have to be judged by Arthur, seems to make her of divine origin as a goddess of the land.

Creidylat is the spelling of her name in the Welsh text of Culhwch. I'll leave it to others more learned than me to suggest an etymology.

[nellie]

How firm an association has Creiddylad with Cordelia? I've only searched on google but there seemed to be a question mark over this? Is this maybe a case of a semi-historical figure being merged with a mythic figure as some people suggest of Brighid? Most of the hits on google seem to say basically the same thing - is not much known/published about this story?

In Culhwch does Creiddylad herself do or say much that gives any information about her? Might she be of interest to Brython?

[Heron]

Sept 5, 2011 15:37:19 GMT -1 nellie said:

How firm an association has Creiddylad with Cordelia? I've only searched on google but there seemed to be a question mark over this? Is this maybe a case of a semi-historical figure being merged with a mythic figure as some people suggest of Brighid? Most of the hits on google seem to say basically the same thing - is not much known/published about this story?

In Culhwch does Creiddylad herself do or say much that gives any information about her? Might she be of interest to Brython?

No she doesn't say anything and the point of the reference is more to affirm the authority of Arthur than anything else.

Earlier in the tale she is referred to as Creidylat merch Llud Llaw Ereint (the daughter of Lludd Silver Hand) which seems to confirm the Llyr-Cordelia link and therefore Geoffrey of Monmouth's statement that she was his daughter. The link is also affirmed in a couple of englyns.

[megli]

Puzzler to me, that one, as I can't etymologise the elements (if it is a compound name) well. (To my knowledge, no one else has either.)

[megli]

I've had a long and taxing think about this name and I can make a suggestion but I one I am not at all confident about.

The first element MAY be a poorly attested word craidd, 'heart', which would be spelled creid(d) in Middle Welsh quite standardly. Unfortunately this word MAY be a Iolo Morgannwg/Owen-Pughe fake---because in addition to faking medieval Welsh literature, IM and has associates put words into the dictionary which they felt ought to be there. ('Ceugant' is one of these.)

The second element MAY be a word gwylad, 'merry, lively', cognate with the word gwyl, 'holiday, vigil', from Latin vigilia.

So Creiddylad < Creiddwylad < *kred-yo-wiglat-, 'Merryheart', which would be an appropriate name for a mythological dollybird.

Possibly. This is one of those instances where there isn't 'an answer'---just a slim possibility.

[nellie]

Thanks Megli, I appreciate the effort

The reason I've been thinking about Creiddylad since I first read Berresford Ellis' retelling is because I have sort of latched onto Deiniol's theory of Sucellos as a candidate for the Lord of the Otherworld, and Nantosuelta as something of a Persephone figure.
The Dagda and Sucellos seem to be one and the same (to me, after a little bit of amateur research) and there seems to be a good link (IMO) between Lugus and Gwyn. Cunliffe suggested the Dagda and Lugh orignated from the same earlier known god (i'm trying to explain, rather lond windedly why I'm connecting Gwyn and Sucellos).
It's straying into the realms of fantasy a little bit to link Nantosuelta with Creiddylad, but this is why I was asking

[Brochfael]

The identification of Creiddylad with Cordelia seems to hinge on the identification of Lludd Llaw Ereint with King Lear.

Lludd Llaw Ereint can certainly be identified with Nuadha Argetlamh in Irish Mythology and arguable, King Lear with Manawyddan's father Llyr in Welsh and through him, Manannan's father Lir in Irish. I've never heard it suggested that Lir and Nuadha are the same so I'm sceptical about that correspondance.

[dumnorix]

I once etymologised Creidylat as *cradio-*lata, "Heart-Longing"... unfortunately I can't work out where I got the second element from. :/ It's not a Welsh nor a Cornish word I know, and it's not in my dictionaries of either language either. Bloody annoying.

I think that would be an appropriate name for the Spring Maiden, for whom the Kings of Summer and Winter fight every Mayday "until Judgement Day"? Supposedly that would make her a deity of some importance (if a deity).

Oh and megli, even if creid isn't good Welsh, I think the word did exist in Brythonic: there is a Breton word "kreizh" or some such, meaning "centre". *cradion or *cridion are the reconstructions I've heard of; personally I like the sound of the latter better , but I prefer the former for accuracy because the a with i-affection better explains the -ei- in my view.