Is Brythonic Polytheism a Religion (yet)?

[lorna]

Hello,

Just wanted to share some thoughts going through my head following on from how tough it was to agree on a definition of Brythonic Polytheism and some of the issues raised around the word 'religion.'

I personally have no problems with the word religion itself. Whilst I see my personal devotional practice and service to the Brythonic gods as religious I'm not certain Brythonic Polytheism is a religion (yet). From conversations within TDN around the recognition of Druidry as a religion I recall a religion must be based on commonality of belief and practice.

So far I think Heron's definition quite nicely summarises a commonality of belief - 'Brythonic Polytheism is a religious tradition based on a devotional relationship with one or more of the gods worshipped by the Brythonic peoples inhabiting Britain and Gaul in the Ancient World. Brythonic polytheists recognise a range of goddesses and gods. Some of these gods and goddesses are attested from records or sites of worship in Roman Britain and Gaul, some survived in later stories and other writings, particularly in Welsh which were constructed from oral tales reflecting a continuity of reference from earlier times.'

Do we have a commonality of practice? I guess the sections on ritual and personal interactions cover the development of this. I think going back over the festivals will be very tricky as the majority of us celebrate them in different ways or some but not others.

A question I think we need to ask ourselves, particularly if we're thinking of not only developing the website but doing a primer, is whether our intention is to develop a joint, coherent system (which I get the impression the 2010 group was trying to) or simply sharing our individual research and experiences with the gods.

As a somewhat anarchic awenydd with a tendency toward deconstruction and reimagining rather than reconstruction I'm coming to realise I'd find reconstructing a system very difficult and within my own work am coming to value a more fragmentary approach where individual fragments come together more like a constellation than trying to fit things together coherently (I find my round pegs just don't go in square holes or whatever the metaphor is).

The conundrum, however, is that I feel we have some duty to give newcomers a simple concise introduction. I'm not too sure how to deal with this whilst doing justice to the complexity of the subject of Brythonic Polytheism.

How is everyone else feeling about our direction so far?

[Lee]

Do we have a commonality of practice? I guess the sections on ritual and personal interactions cover the development of this. I think going back over the festivals will be very tricky as the majority of us celebrate them in different ways or some but not others.


A question I think we need to ask ourselves, particularly if we're thinking of not only developing the website but doing a primer, is whether our intention is to develop a joint, coherent system (which I get the impression the 2010 group was trying to) or simply sharing our individual research and experiences with the gods.


As a somewhat anarchic awenydd with a tendency toward deconstruction and reimagining rather than reconstruction I'm coming to realise I'd find reconstructing a system very difficult and within my own work am coming to value a more fragmentary approach where individual fragments come together more like a constellation than trying to fit things together coherently (I find my round pegs just don't go in square holes or whatever the metaphor is).


The conundrum, however, is that I feel we have some duty to give newcomers a simple concise introduction. I'm not too sure how to deal with this whilst doing justice to the complexity of the subject of Brythonic Polytheism.


How is everyone else feeling about our direction so far?

Oddly enough, Wicca is a good thing to mention here;


Wicca is a religion. Autonomous covens share a core ritual structure, coven structure and a broadly similar way of working with gods. There  are a wide range of variations in the way different covens operate and work, but that core is always there. each coven has a pair of gods as it's 'patrons' thougn the pair will vary from coven to coven, and exactly how they are viewed (archetypes, poltheist, duotheist etc) can also vary.

Brython  - us - can be somewhat similar. We share a belief in the same gods and ungods, have broadly similar aims in reviving some form of worship of them, we share a ritual liturgy and often share similar ritual times. This core is generally there, but out own spin on how we do things is always present and isn't something that causes problems. We are united and brought together by the things we share and have in common.

We deliberately didnt want to use the word reconstruction back when brython was getting going, it has a lot of baggage and would associate us with other groups out there. We were using the word 'reconnectionism' to denote that we look to the past to build a foundation, but we make it all relevant to us now living in the 21stC. To (poorly) quote darren from several years ago; "we build our halls on the foundations laid by our ancestors, but the walls and roof are our own".

With the primer, I thin we aim to provide the core; history,  the gods, ungods etc, some liturgy and ritual practice. But we also point out that it is merely the foundation from which they can build, and that they should seek to build a relationship with the gods and together build their own walls and roof.

[Heron]

I think we did, in some of the things on the Brython site, seek to give the impression that we were a functioning group with a common outlook and practice and as such visitors might view us as a single group or order of some sort rather than - as in Lee's comparison with Wicca - a range of different approaches united in a broadly similar attitude to the gods and devotional practice. But Wicca does have covens which within themselves have common features to their practice. The wording of part of the Core Values did suggest that we at least aspired to something similar. So I think we need to be clear about our aspirations and what we perceive to be the limits of our current abilities to offer people more than information and a discussion forum.

[lorna]

I guess the problem we're facing at the moment is we're a very small group.

Sharing information, discussions, myths and stories and personal devotions for the Brythonic deities is valuable but I don't think constitutes a religion yet. Certainly not in the sense of Wicca or Druidry. And I guess the reason I didn't join a coven and ended up choosing the path of the awenydd rather than a Druid path is that I really struggle with order and structure.

So... it may be worth thinking about the skills we have and what we can conceivably offer. Another point I think we need to address, which should hopefully be addressed by the blog, is how many other Brythonic Polytheists are out there and how to start conversations with them. Perhaps the parameters of Brythonic Polytheism may become clearer once we've discussed them more widely with others.

[Gwenno]

I hope Brythonic Polytheism is a religion, because I would like to be part of it. I've been looking at your website and some of the pages made me feel at home (though some others were a bit academic).

I know you are changing the site from reading the recent posts on here. It's difficult for someone coming in fresh to get involved without knowing stuff. But I'm having a go at some of the things on your reading list where I can get them.

Some old threads on here are also interesting, but no longer active. No point replying to someone whose not here any more.

[lorna]

@ Gwenno - would you mind pointing out what works for you and what you feel is too academic - it's always helpful to have responses so we know what helps people and puts them off. No-one will be offended

[Lee]

Feb 27, 2016 13:31:00 GMT -1 lorna said:

@ Gwenno - would you mind pointing out what works for you and what you feel is too academic - it's always helpful to have responses so we know what helps people and puts them off. No-one will be offended

Yes, please do

We can always add more into it to make things clearer and more useful.

[Gwenno]

Oh now you've put me on the spot
I didn't mean to critisize but wanted to say a few things on the site looked a bit beyond me.

You want examples - the page on Indo-european deities of the 1st function  etc is one I was thinking about. I'm not saying it shouldn't be there. Just that it doesn't do it for me.

But other stuff like the myths is good.So I'm not criticizing. Just saying what suits and what doesn't.