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Post by branynos on Mar 22, 2005 9:48:07 GMT -1
This is still a work in progress but theres just about enough done to share and get feedback I'm pretty sure most of you know that the eight festival Wheel of the Year is a modern construct. As I understand it Gardnerian Wicca started with the four cross day (or fire festivals) and then added the solar ones (the Greater & Lesser Sabbats) and the Ross Nicolls introduced the eight when he founded OBOD. He and Gardner were friends so there was cross fertilisation going on between the two groups right from the start. Although a number of books etc refer to them as the 'Celtic Wheel of the Year' its pretty obvious that as three of the names (Eostra, Litha & Yule) come from Germanic culture that they're not purely Celtic Mabon for the autumn equinox is neo-pagan and started appearing as the festival's name sometime in the early eighties. Beltane Samhain & Lughnasad appear on the Coligny Calendar (but not Imbolc apparently). Okay preamble over below are the renamed festivals. You'll note autumn is missing replaced by harvest, theres some debate about how many seasons the Celts had the two of Summer & Winter or the three of Spring Summer & Winter. Modern Welsh uses "hydref" for both Autumn & October (which would mean calling a festival falling on the 1st of August the 'start of October' and that just grates on my brain ) and tends to support the theory that early Celts didn't have the fourth season. Calan Gaeaf = (Samhain) Winter Start (Ysbrydnos) Alban Gaeaf = (Yule) Winter Solstice Calan Gwanwyn = (Imbolc) Spring Start Alban Gwanwyn = (Eostra) Spring equinox Calan Haf = (Beltane) Summers Start Alban Haf = (Litha) Summer Solstice (Midsummer) Calan Cynhaeaf = (Lughnasad) Harvest Start Alban Cynhaeaf= (Mabon) Harvest Equinox Calan = start of season/month Alban = equinox or solstice I've used "alban" because its the old word meaning both solstice & equinox and suggests that they were of considered of equal imort to the Celts. "Ysbrydnos" is an alternative name I stumbled across for Halloween it translates as "Night of Ghosts" which is appropriate but I need to dig around a bit more for its provenance
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Post by Midori on Mar 22, 2005 11:01:43 GMT -1
I'm not entirely certain of this, but I recall being told many years ago that Samhain was a Gaelic word meaning 'Summer's End', which would seem to confirm the three-season Celtic Year. I think Summer's End is a nicer way of putting it than Winter Start, personally.
The terms Oestra, Litha, Yule are words taken from the Germanic of the Saxons, as is Lammas, a corruption of a word meaning 'loaf-mass' which would be in keeping with the grain harvest which occurred at this time of year, early August.
Imbolc, Candlemass, St. Lucia is a festival of light from Scandinavia celebrating the time when the sun started reappearing in the sky after the long dark of the Arctic winter. Some folk hold it sacred to Bride, Brigid, Brigantia, Goddess of the Brigantes,and patron of smiths, healers, midwives and the Bardic Arts. Iwould think that the Celtic peoples would have welcomed the first signs of Spring, even if it was unlikely they would have celebrated it, food supplies would have become low by this time, unless the warriors could have taken a stag or buck.
Beltane, I have been taught means Bel's Fires, sacred to Beli Mawr, a Welsh sun deity. It also marked the time when the herds andf locks were sent to the outer pastures, so the nearer ones could be reserved for hay.
BB Midori
p.s. If ever anyone comes to Andover, we have an excellent Museum of The Iron Age, showing many of the artifacts discovered at Danebury Hillfort, a well-known Hampshire site, both are worth a visit.
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Post by sulla on Mar 22, 2005 12:33:52 GMT -1
I have tried to do a similar thing myself, translating the festivals into Unified Cornish Revised, in the hope of further translating them into Westcountry Brythonic at some point.
Calan Gwaf/Nos Calan Gwaf (Samhain) - First day of Winter/Night of the first day of Winter Howlsaf an gwaf (Yule) - The Winter Solstice Cala' Whevrel/de Hala' Whevrel (Imbolc) - First day of February Kehesnos gwaynten (Ostara) - Spring Equinox Cala' Me (Beltane) - First day of May Howlsaf an haf (Litha) - The Summer Solstice Calan Est/de Halan Est or Degol Est (Lughnasadh) - First day of August or August Festival Kehesnos gwaynten (Mabon) - The Autumn Equinox
I thought Alban was a word adopted and used by modern day Druids.
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Post by branynos on Mar 22, 2005 13:02:32 GMT -1
I'm not entirely certain of this, but I recall being told many years ago that Samhain was a Gaelic word meaning 'Summer's End', which would seem to confirm the three-season Celtic Year. I think Summer's End is a nicer way of putting it than Winter Start, personally. You're right about the Gaelic meaning summers end, 'Nos Calan Gaeaf' is the traditonal name for Hallowe'en in Wales, which when translated bears no relationship to the Christian festival its supposed to name I'd never made the connection between the St Lucia festival & Imbolc before, thankyou for pointing it out. My 'festival of light' is celebrated at Midwinter rather than Imbolc, sympathetic magic to help the sun return I understood Beltane to come from the Scottish 'Bealtainn' meaning blazing fire, rather than Beli Mawr but as the root words beli or bhel both seem to mean to gleam or shine it may just be the Scots wrote it down first
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Post by branynos on Mar 22, 2005 13:17:09 GMT -1
The druids do use alban but its a real Welsh word meaning both equinox & solstice. Modern Welsh uses 'heuldro' for solstice and 'cyhydnos' for equinox. I kept alban because it makes an easier pattern. I can see the affinity between the Welsh and the Cornish in your use of howlsuf and Kehesnos.
Another option in Welsh would be to use Canol (middle or centre) so you'd have Canol Haf = Midsummer etc.. How close would the Cornish for centre be?
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Post by sulla on Mar 22, 2005 13:40:45 GMT -1
How close would the Cornish for centre be? Not that close really, the Cornish for middle or centre is 'cres'.
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Post by Blackbird on Mar 22, 2005 14:47:07 GMT -1
I go with the two season over the three season.
By the way, I think it's only Samos that appears on the Coligny calendar, tentatively linked with Samhain, though others argue against. The calender has an entry 'Trinox Samoni' - three nights of Samain. Trouble with the Coligny calender is that it's not clear where it starts. So some thing that Samos is Samhain - ie end of October - while others think it is literally summer, describing a festival at the summer solstice.
The months of the Coligny calendar are: Samon, Dvman, Rivros, Anagan, Ogronn, Cvtios, Giamoni, Simivis, Eqvos, Elemiv, Edrini, and Cantlos.
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Post by branynos on Mar 23, 2005 18:04:38 GMT -1
By the way, I think it's only Samos that appears on the Coligny calendar, I went to double check that, because as usual I can't remember where or when I read it, and one web site confirms that Beltane & Lughnasad are marked by small sigils while the vast majority just mention Samhain/Samos www.roman-britain.org/coligny.htm
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Post by goldenhand on Mar 24, 2005 8:21:17 GMT -1
Great work with the festivals, guys! One thing I would like is to step outside the box, and say that I don't think there have to be 8 of them. There must be loads of festivals that were held at different times that have now been forgotten. Perhaps we should start some festivals that have relevance to us in modern times? Like a festival to celebrate how quiet the roads are when the schools break up ;D Or annual festivals on the days that noteable people died... like Dave Allen, who sadly went over recently... or John Peel...
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Post by sulla on Mar 24, 2005 9:15:51 GMT -1
One thing I would like is to step outside the box, and say that I don't think there have to be 8 of them. There is more emphasis placed on the four fire festivals rather than the solstices/equinoxes. I find this quite strange, because I'm sure our ancestors would have been very aware of even the slightest change in the seasons and the movement from light to dark and back again.
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Post by branynos on Mar 24, 2005 10:35:23 GMT -1
Ooh more festivals! I already celebrate the day schools break up, usually by a lie -in as it means taking leave from work to be with my son. I celebrate Dydd Dewi Sant and "Apple Day & "Tree Dressing Day" set up by a group called Common Ground ( www.commonground.org.uk/ ) though they're not pagan they certainly feel pagan in intent, on top of the eight already.
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Post by Blackbird on Mar 24, 2005 15:49:05 GMT -1
I like this idea of more festivals too ;D I took a look at the Roman Britain site - he was quoting Caitlinn Matthews as a source for that info... so maybe she was in an er... imaginitive mood. I've never come across anything else suggesting those dates are marked. After all, we don't even know at which point of the year the Coligny calendar starts. Here are some resources that I like: www.summerlands.com/crossroads/library/drcal.htm Which is a modern calendar based upon the Coligny one, among other things bonrhys.idx.com.au/response.htmWhich covers a few topics, including the possible confusion over Samhain and Samos pagancentral.com/astrology/coligny/ Which has a really cute little Coligny calendar that you can download ;D www.celticnz.co.nz/Coligny/ColignyPart1.htmWhich gets into some really frightening mathematical stuff that does my head in a bit Anyhow, I agree with Goldenhand - great work all of you on the Brythonic festivals. Perhaps we could get that information into a more user friendly form for the website? Article anyone?
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Post by Brochfael on Mar 24, 2005 15:50:04 GMT -1
I think of Samhain/Halloween as Gwyl y Meirw (The feast of the dead. Perhaps a more Brythonic name for Beltane/Mayday would be Gwyl Beli or Tan Beli. Lughnasadh could be Brythonicised (new word alert!) to Gwyl Llew or Gwyl Llwch depending on which you think appropriate (should a mutation from ll to l come in here?).
At this point my Welsh language skills really fail me and to be honest in my neck of the woods, lambing doesn't start for aboput a month after Imbolc so I'll leave that to wiser heads than mine.
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Post by branynos on Mar 24, 2005 16:55:27 GMT -1
I like this idea of more festivals too ;D I took a look at the Roman Britain site - he was quoting Caitlinn Matthews as a source for that info... so maybe she was in an er... imaginitive mood. I've never come across anything else suggesting those dates are marked. After all, we don't even know at which point of the year the Coligny calendar starts. That would explain where I picked it up then. I should have been clearer with only one site expressing that viewpoint it probably means I wasn't right (Multiple sites all quoting the same phrase don't count either) The only problem I would have with that is Lughnasad refers specifically to the funeral games Lugh hosted for his foster mother Tailte, and theres no corresponding myth /event in Lleu's myth that I'm aware of for him to claim the festival as his. More generally does anyone else use three days as a 'standard' so you can have a overaching name like Calon Gaeaf and within that have Ysbrydnos, Gwyl y Meirw & Nos hynafiad (night of the Ancestors). I admit this is the bit I'm still exploring and may be about to take some liberties to make them fit my obsession with things triadic
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Post by nantonos on Mar 24, 2005 21:10:44 GMT -1
I like this idea of more festivals too ;D I took a look at the Roman Britain site - he was quoting Caitlinn Matthews as a source for that info... so maybe she was in an er... imaginitive mood. I've never come across anything else suggesting those dates are marked. After all, we don't even know at which point of the year the Coligny calendar starts. There is nothing on the Coligny Calendar to indicate Beltane or Lughnassadh. This is wishful thinking by those who see Gaulish culture as a convenient historical backstop to be selectively plundered to support the antiquity of Irish mediaeval materials rather than a culture in its own right. The 'translations' of the months are fanciful and bear no relation whatsoever to the actual translations of the month names in reputable sources. I must say I am saddened to see roman-britain.org start to use fluffy new age material; its generally a solid reliable historical site.
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Post by Midori on Mar 24, 2005 21:44:46 GMT -1
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot more festivals than currently are apparent. Surely there would have been local tribal festivals, which would probably not been used even by the tribe next door. I feel Pagans generally could be in danger of homogenising festivals, forgetting that communication was not so easy 3000+ years ago.
BB Midori
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Post by Blackbird on Mar 25, 2005 13:29:22 GMT -1
The 'translations' of the months are fanciful and bear no relation whatsoever to the actual translations of the month names in reputable sources. I must say I am saddened to see roman-britain.org start to use fluffy new age material; its generally a solid reliable historical site. I was surprised at that too, it's a place I often visit for info, and one that I trusted. As I understand it, there is still debate over the meanings of some of the month names? As well as the positioning of the calender in relation to ours.
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Post by Blackbird on Mar 25, 2005 13:36:26 GMT -1
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot more festivals than currently are apparent. Surely there would have been local tribal festivals, which would probably not been used even by the tribe next door. I feel Pagans generally could be in danger of homogenising festivals, forgetting that communication was not so easy 3000+ years ago. lol, could be in danger... I think that bridge was crossed a long while ago. Most modern pagans take the 8 fold year as something set in stone. Does anyone read 'White Dragon'? Moonhunter published an excellent article on the 'Wheel of the Year', basically pointing out that these festivals are very localised affairs, and that the whole thing is a modern construct. Probably not news to those of us here, but in the wider pagan community, it was certainly something that needed saying. I expect there were loads of other local festivals... days upon which tribal Gods were honoured, perhaps festivals commemorating victories in battle, or the deaths of important folk. But I have no evidence for that, just speculation on my part There may well have been many commonalities, even over distances - purely because these tribes are living in a similar way, following pastoral and agricultural cycles. Something like the harvest is bound to be celebrated in one way or another. As I see it, Lughnasadh was held for practical reasons, a pre harvest festival during which you'd hire your workers. I expect other people were doing similar things, even if they didn't call it Lughnasadh...
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Post by nantonos on Mar 25, 2005 15:53:59 GMT -1
I was surprised at that too, it's a place I often visit for info, and one that I trusted. Its also somewhere that has been responsive in the past to requests for correction. I plan to get them some better material, assemble arguments why what is there is incorrect, and than ask for it to be corrected. As I understand it, there is still debate over the meanings of some of the month names? As well as the positioning of the calender in relation to ours. There is vast debate over the start date and the relations to the Irish mediaeval calendar. There is some debate about the month names, as in various plausile translations. The stuff given there is no translations, however. Its fanciful made-up stuff, not a plausible translation from Gaulish.
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