Requests for W and Ir. Poetry translations

[megli]

I've been asked to submit some more translations for TDN of Welsh/Breton/Irish/Scottish Gaelic poetry. I've done some favourites of my own, but I was wondering if anyone had any requests (don't be sadists and ask for large chunks from the Book of Taliesin ). Favourite Dafydd ap Gwilym poems? Llywarch Hen? If anyone's got anything they especially like, I'll set to work on it, and cd post a commentary on it here, if you like.

[Francis]

Hi Megli

Thanks for this offer - I wouldn't have wanted to ask as I guess you're normally very busy!

I'd like to put in a request of literally anything by Adda Fras (although in particular anything about the giant Ifan Goch or the Dragon Carrog). I'm probably biased living in Maenan, but since Mr. Williams died (an old friend) who used to recite chunks to me I haven't been able to find any translations.

I post a small link for identification purposes (I'm not sure how well know he might be in the wider world?);

yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-ADDA-FRA-1240.html

Many thanks in advance but please don't feel even the slightest obligation to choose him!

Bendithion

Stephen

[megli]

hmm, sure, if I can find an edition that gives me a decent text! You like prophecy then?
He seems to be a traditional figure invoked by later prophetic poets and much of the material ascribed to him in the manuscripts is too late to be genuinely his. But I'll check out the situation!

[Francis]

megli said:

You like prophecy then?

Not so much prophecy it's more his retelling of the stories of the Conwy Valley that I liked.

He seems to be a traditional figure invoked by later prophetic poets and much of the material ascribed to him in the manuscripts is too late to be genuinely his.

Blooming Eck! Why is it that when ever you dig into local legends they turn to smoke! I'd always been led to believe he was historical not traditional. He's supposed to be buried under what is now the beer garden of the Maenan Abbey hotel and many folk have splashed a drop of their drink onto the grass to his name. Years of wasted beer!

Maenan's not had many sons or daughters become famous just him and Sali Mali - now don't tell me she's not real either!

[megli]

I'm sure he was real - so was, say, Taliesin, almost certainly - but whether any of his poetry survives is another matter. Easily resolved when i go into work tomorrow and look him up! I'll let you know how I get on.

[Francis]

For what it's worth I'm sure Kes (Otherwise known with the initials A.G. Who I believe is a student of your's or at least of your college's) would also be interested in anything you could dig up concerning Ifan Goch.

Like I said though please don't feel any obligation!!

Bendithion
Stephen

[megli]

I'm sure she would - she is indeed my student. (Potters off to library!)

[littleraven]

Hmm, recently I was lookng for a translation of 'Cywydd y gal' by Dafydd ap Gwilym and couldn't find one anywhere.

[megli]

Easily done! There's an excellent translation by Dafydd Johnston in his Canu Maswedd yr Oesoedd Canol/Medieval Welsh Erotic Poetry (Bridgend, 1998), pp. 24-7.

[megli]

here is Johnston's translation: ;D


'By God, penis, you must be guarded
with eye and hand
becasuse of this lawsuit, straight-headed pole,
more carefully for evermore;
net-quill of the cunt, because of
complaint a bridle must be put on your snout
to kepp you in check so that you are not indicted
again, take heed, you despair of minstrels.

I consider you the vilest of rolling-pins,
horn of the scrotum, do not rise up or wave about;
gift of the noble ladies of Christendom,
nut-pole of the lap's cavity,
snare-shape, gander
sleeping in its yearling plumage,
neck with a wet head and milk giving shaft,
tip of a growing shoot, stop your awkward jerking;
crooked blunt one, accursed pole,
the centre-pillar of two halves of a girl,
head of a stiff conger with a hole in it,
blunt barrier like a fresh hazel-pole.
You are longer than a big man's thigh,
a long night's roaming, chisel of a hundred nights;
auger like the shaft of the post,
leather-headed one who is just called 'tail'.
You are a sceptre which causes lust,
the bolt of the lid of a girls bare arse.
There is a pipe in your head,
a whistle for fucking every day.
there is an eye in your pate,
which sees every woman as fair;
round pestle, expaning gun,
it is a searing fire to a small cunt;
roof-beam of girls' laps,
the swift growth of the clapper of a bell;
blunt pod, it dug a family,
snare of skin, nostril with a crop of two testicles.
you are a trouserful of wantonness,
your neck is leather, image of a goose's neckbone,
nature of complete falsity, pod of lewdness,
door-nail which causes a lawsuit and trouble.

Consider that there is a writ and an indictment,
lower your head, stick for planting children.
It is difficult to keep you under control,
cold thrust, woe to you indeed!
often is your lord rebuked,
obvious is the rottenness through your head.'

[suelittleowl]

Wow, I guess if you had one that big you'd want to write a poem about it. Ouch!

[woodsmoke]

I found the odd braggartly comments interspersed among the more derogatory metaphors amusing (ie 'sceptre which causes lust' or 'gift of the noble ladies of Christendom'!)...despite all the troubles it has caused, it seems he is immensely proud of his vilest of rolling pins! ;D

[megli]

Oh., it's great isn't it? There's a kind of response poem by a female poet called Gwerful Mechain, called 'Cywydd y Gont' (roughly: 'Ode to the Quim') which is hilarious and rather beautiful. 'A sour grove, full of love, / sultan of an ode, you are made of silk...'

[Lee]

not neccessarily a request for a translation, but which of DaG's poems is the one about Blodeuedd? does a translation exist of it?

[megli]

It's not directly about Blodeuwedd, but it refers to her glancingly.
It's 'Y dylluan' 'the owl', number 61 here: www.dafyddapgwilym.net. The poems and site are viewable in English.
Dafydd calls the owl:

'ghoul of the birds. Every bird attacks it,
filthy outcast. Isn't its existence a monstrosity? '

The reference is to the fourth branch, of course, in which Gwydion tells B. that every bird will attack her (and DapG uses a form of exactly the same verb for 'attack' as occurs in the Mabinogi: 'baeddu', 'to harrass, attack'. This word also occurs in the Law of Women, and is used of a husband's right to beat (baeddu) his wife on three occasions: if she gives away his stuff, is caught with another man, or casts shame on his beard! So the author of the Mabinogi was using a precise legal term (because Bl. has, of course, been caught with another man) and Dafydd clearly knew the text, or a version of it.

There is another, longer poem to the owl which is in the voice of Blod. It's in Helen Fulton's 'Dafydd ap Gwilym: Apocrypha', from Llandysul. It's almost certainly not by dafydd and is a bit later. That's the one where she says she's the daughter of a lord like Meirchion.

[littleraven]

megli said:

Oh., it's great isn't it? There's a kind of response poem by a female poet called Gwerful Mechain, called 'Cywydd y Gont' (roughly: 'Ode to the Quim') which is hilarious and rather beautiful. 'A sour grove, full of love, / sultan of an ode, you are made of silk...'

Coming back to this one, I can't find this either.

Got a translation?

[megli]

Yes. but I'll need to get Johnston's Erotic Poetry thing out. 'Sawdan yr awdl, sidan ydyw'...etc.
will type it in asap.

[Heron]

I'm sure there is a translation of this. At least I remember a woman reading it out in English at a conference in Gregynog, much to the delight of the other women present while most of the males fidgeted uncomfortably! Can't remember who by though.

[megli]

There's been several - but none that I have in front of me. I'll trot off and see if i can find it now.