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Post by arth_frown on Jul 23, 2007 11:30:04 GMT -1
[quote author=littleraven board=hearth thread=1185016436 post=1185192991 BTW, he was never actually 'chosen' as such. Basically he just owns the copyright ;-)[/quote]
I have doubts that he was 'chosen' it seemed to be a one horse race. AFAICT there is no evidence of how they chose PCG, I doubt it was pulling a short straw.
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Post by littleraven on Jul 23, 2007 11:36:14 GMT -1
[quote author=littleraven board=hearth thread=1185016436 post=1185192991 BTW, he was never actually 'chosen' as such. Basically he just owns the copyright ;-) I have doubts that he was 'chosen' it seemed to be a one horse race. AFAICT there is no evidence of how they chose PCG, I doubt it was pulling a short straw.[/quote] IIRC the facts of it are that when Ross Nicholls died PCG retained his materials, whihc is why the 'Book of Druidry' was able to be published post mortem with PCG as the editor. So if you want you can say that Ross Nicholls 'chose' to pass on the helm of OBOD to PCG.
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Post by ceinach on Jul 23, 2007 12:11:57 GMT -1
My understanding is that Nuinns papers were partially rescued from his flat when he died and that other papers turned up with other members and passed onto PCG some time later when it was decided that the order be re-opened...
According to The Book of Druidry PCG Wrote in the Forward "The Order was closed by his successor and other concerns meant I thought little about the manuscript, the Order and it's teachings for nearly a decade" it goes on that after a meditation in which PGC was told by Nuinn to revisit the material, he then "had to gather all the material together" It seems that most of the documents were in fact put into rubbish bags and left out for the bin men so not passed on at all...
Interestingly the credits state that it's Edited by John Matthews and Philip Carr-Gomm (in that order!) read into that what you will... and it's noted that the Key figure in the rebirth of the order wishes to remain anonymous - so not Philip then I would assume?
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Post by Tegernacus on Jul 23, 2007 12:27:01 GMT -1
If Ross had chosen to do so, he would have. Fact is PCG tracked down his manuscripts, found most of them in a black bin-bag apparently, compiled them, added to them, worked them for a year in an "experimental group", set up the his course. After that he was asked by what was left of the OBOD to be leader. (according to PGC's intro to the Book Of Druidry)
I doubt it was a one-horse race, more like PCG was the only person being proactive in the OBOD circle at the time. But even in that early text, you can see his personal thinking coming through. Quote:
".. Others may be disappointed, hoping that Druidry was exclusively 'pagan'. But Druidry is a way of working with the natural world, and is not a dogma or religion. It can be combined with Buddhism or Christianity, Wiccan practice or Judaism. .... which can be used or not as the practitioner sees fit".
Is it just me, or is there some confusion here between "environmental consciousness" and "druidry?". In the same way that Druidry became a nickname for Nationalism, now it's becoming a nickname for being green. Its that fundamental difference in philosophy that alienates me from the OBOD.
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Post by bram on Jul 23, 2007 16:34:21 GMT -1
I have just finished the Bardic Grade of OBOD - some bits were OK others not but I can now argue from a position of knowledge not conjecture.
Which is why I like this place - you get informed argument and pointed to the source of the information.
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Post by Blackbird on Jul 26, 2007 10:45:58 GMT -1
I did some of the OBOD courses back in the early 90s. I believe that both the Bardic and Ovate courses have been rewritten since then, so I can't really comment on the content. I remember being very disappointed with the courses - having come to them after about seven years of work on my own, the bardic course was far too basic (and didn't have anything bardic in it), while the Ovate course was firmly based in Robert Graves - which would have been fine if the limitations of that had been acknowledged. I don't want to knock it too much. As has been pointed out, it continues to be valuable for many people. Yes, you have to pay for the courses, but you do get lots of learning material posted out, plus a tutor and a magazine. I believe they also offer discount for those on a low income. I once wrote a poem for Touchstone, needless to say, they didn't print it... think it may have been too cynical for 'em (or just too rubbish, take your pick!) As regards other publications, White Dragon is always excellent. Rowan only prints lengthy articles that are properly referenced, so you end up with some worthwhile information. I also had a subscription to Pendragon, which is a great little Arthurian journal. Had to let that one lapse for financial reasons, but I'll sign up again when I can.
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Post by Midori on Jul 26, 2007 11:51:50 GMT -1
Thank you all for your insights on OBOD, From other forums I frequent I was beginning to feel I was a rebel without cause!
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Post by Sìle on Jul 26, 2007 17:32:49 GMT -1
I, too, am a reader of White Dragon, as I find the articles prompt me to do a bit of thinking. I also subscribe to Pentacle, as ancestrallee is currently doing a series of articles, and Pagan Dawn I buy occasionally when I hear there are articles of note. I have yet to find a magazine that would fit the bill perfectly.
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Post by Craig on Jul 27, 2007 5:46:07 GMT -1
Midori,
Apropos of my bardic senses, where did you get this little gem, or is it yours?
I wish I was a glow worm, A glow worm's never glum, How can you be unhappy, when the sun shines out yer bum?
That one little rhyme has lifted my day - thanks!
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Post by ceinach on Aug 2, 2007 9:58:59 GMT -1
Love that little glow worm ditty - thanks...
Interestingly I have just been reading some of the re-written gwersu from the oBOD course and was pleasently surprised that it acknowledges that what is written is not pretending to be "ancient wisdom" and actually refers to sources which is a complete turn around on the old ones. Again there is stuff in there which can be found in all sorts of new age and modern books, but some is not so easily found.
I am a little cynical when you are asked not to disclose the contents even to others doing the course and live in hope that the motive is an honourable one. Again I will say it, I enjoy the course and even though it goes over old ground covered by others it is sometimes good to go back to the roots and work again with it.
I am lucky that I can do my course whilst sitting in my grove in the woods with the smells and feeling of damp earth beneath me and a grandfather oak at my back, the breeze on my face and dapled sunshine dancing on my toes. IMHO it's how much you put into it and how much you look outside of it and around it as much as what's in it that needs to be worked with - I have said it before, it can help open doors of discovery which may not otherwise have been found...
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Post by Tegernacus on Aug 2, 2007 11:23:00 GMT -1
I am a little cynical when you are asked not to disclose the contents even to others doing the course and live in hope that the motive is an honourable one. its a question of copyright, but more so about money-making imo. If you give/copy the course to other people, they won't sign up for it. Money making isn't a bad thing, per-se, but they could quite easily compile the course into a book and sell it at £15. What is the course currently, £200+? hmm... as long as you enjoy it and get something from it, then do it and be happy I am lucky that I can do my course whilst sitting in my grove in the woods with the smells and feeling of damp earth beneath me and a grandfather oak at my back, the breeze on my face and dapled sunshine dancing on my toes. IMHO it's how much you put into it and how much you look outside of it and around it as much as what's in it that needs to be worked with - I have said it before, it can help open doors of discovery which may not otherwise have been found...
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Post by ceinach on Aug 2, 2007 11:32:06 GMT -1
It's more than that - you are not meant to discuss it with others on the course so no copyright involved....
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Post by rowan on Aug 2, 2007 12:25:30 GMT -1
I thought the OBOD bardic course was a disappointment as well. I'm a student and it was a lot of money to me that I could have gained more from by spending it on almost anything else. I did learn a lot, but only because I was starting from almost knowing nothing at all. I think Tegernacus is right and it could have been made into a £15 book that you would be very pleased with. When I've finished my course I'm hoping to save enough money to do Bobcat's course which I bet is amazing but costs about £600
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Post by Tegernacus on Aug 2, 2007 12:51:15 GMT -1
£600?? bloody hell...
we should make up a course, put it online as free downloadable PDFs or something. With support questions answered on this board.
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Post by littleraven on Aug 2, 2007 12:55:03 GMT -1
£600?? bloody hell... we should make up a course, put it online as free downloadable PDFs or something. With support questions answered on this board. Actually, I was asked to do this for TDN about two years ago but never got around to it. Bobcat had her course up there, and the plan was to have something as a 'counter' to it. I only mention it because I found my notes for it at the weekend. As for the idea, when the DunBrython site is sorted this kind of thing is part of the plan. LR
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Post by ceinach on Aug 2, 2007 12:59:36 GMT -1
Hey that would be very cool indeed....I look forward to it...
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Post by arth_frown on Aug 2, 2007 13:34:38 GMT -1
I thought the OBOD bardic course was a disappointment as well. I'm a student and it was a lot of money to me that I could have gained more from by spending it on almost anything else. I did learn a lot, but only because I was starting from almost knowing nothing at all. I think Tegernacus is right and it could have been made into a £15 book that you would be very pleased with. When I've finished my course I'm hoping to save enough money to do Bobcat's course which I bet is amazing but costs about £600 £600 bloody hell money for old rope. I'm sure if you want to know what Bobcat does you could always buy some of her books and save yourself a fortune. Sometimes you can't gain knowledge and experience by chucking money at it.
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Post by arth_frown on Aug 2, 2007 13:37:13 GMT -1
£600?? bloody hell... we should make up a course, put it online as free downloadable PDFs or something. With support questions answered on this board. Actually, I was asked to do this for TDN about two years ago but never got around to it. Bobcat had her course up there, and the plan was to have something as a 'counter' to it. I only mention it because I found my notes for it at the weekend. As for the idea, when the DunBrython site is sorted this kind of thing is part of the plan. LR Excellent look forward to reading it. Bobcat's TDN course is a bit fluffy the grove tried doing but found it unworkable.
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Post by claer on Aug 2, 2007 14:09:09 GMT -1
It's more than that - you are not meant to discuss it with others on the course so no copyright involved.... I've been slowly working along, picking up the OBOD Bardic lessons from time to time (I've found it useful in some places, but then I don't use it on its own). I haven't come across anything about not discussing it with others on the course at all - genuinely interested where that came from, as I seem to have totally missed that... The course is discussed on sections of the OBOD website/forum quite freely, and I have also had lengthy chats about bits at my local moot. Nobody else has ever said it shouldn't be discussed.
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