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Post by Tegernacus on Aug 27, 2008 16:16:08 GMT -1
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Post by Midori on Aug 28, 2008 13:37:08 GMT -1
It appears that two protests became mixed. OBOD and TDN were there for one thing, and it collided with Arthur's protest to Free The Stones.
Whereas I applaud Arthur's stance in principle, I cannot see that just removing the fence is the answer. there are more issues than that.
Another problem which Arthur got into was the one of treating ancient human remains with dignity, and there was a heated debate with one archaeologist who said he would not return remains. Julian Richards was there, enjoying the debate hugely, judging by his expression in the photographs I saw!I believe that was what the presence of OBOD and TDN were for, supporting Honouring the Ancient Dead and asking for the remains not to end up in boxes on archive shelves.
Cheers, Midori
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Post by Blackbird on Sept 1, 2008 10:23:07 GMT -1
I admire Arthur in many ways, in that he does get off his backside and protest about the issues that matter to him, and uses the media frenzy that follows him to raise the profile of those issues. However, I think he fails to remove himself from what is seen as the lunatic fringe and often ends up being unhelpful to his causes and to paganisms generally in the UK. We need to get the general public onside. Strutting around with robes and a sword, while it keeps the media interested, brands us all as nutters and hippies. Stonehenge doesn't belong to druids, it belongs to us all, and we have responsibility for making sure it remains for generations to come. If that means keeping people off the stones, so be it. I do think that opening the stones at certain times of year for legitimate groups and individuals is a great idea. But having free access at all times would, I believe, lead to semi permenent gatherings of stoners, new age nutcases and hippies. While some such people seem to think they have more right to stonehenge than other people, there are many others who love to visit the stones - tourists (like them or not, we need their money!), walkers, lovers of history - and ordinary people who like to marvel at the skill of our ancestors. I do think the general public is really interested in heritage, in ancestry and the land, but this seems to be forgotten by many pagans, who seem to think they own 'sacred sites', or have more right to be there than dog walkers and picnickers. This leads to the arrogant and rude behaviour often seen at sites, including the leaving of ritual litter, which damages our image with the public. I've done some rites up in Derbyshire which were really open and friendly, and which often led to random members of the public coming to ask questions or even joining in. This is what we should be encouraging at all sites, getting people involved and hopefully realising that we're not all hippie weirdos  |
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Post by arth_frown on Sept 4, 2008 7:15:47 GMT -1
I'm starting to think they should just blow the bloody thing up. There is also a few drudic groups that are in talks with EH about 'the way forward' in concern about access on the summer solstice. Yep you guessed it these groups are now fighting with each other. |
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Post by littleraven on Sept 4, 2008 9:14:45 GMT -1
I hate Stonehenge. With a passion. The times I've been there I've felt sick, with a taste of just having drunk a pint of sour milk.
Fence it off and lock it.
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Post by claer on Sept 4, 2008 11:42:32 GMT -1
I'm starting to think they should just blow the bloody thing up. There is also a few drudic groups that are in talks with EH about 'the way forward' in concern about access on the summer solstice. Yep you guessed it these groups are now fighting with each other. Stonehenge has never really done much for me on the occasions I visited. Maybe it is a throw back to school days when it seemed that every year we got taken to Stonehenge and Avebury as local sites. The recent events and bitching I've been reading about - again - is just embarrassing. I don't mind them making prats of themselves - but it is when they claim to represent pagans/druids in general that I feel annoyed. Stonehenge, and it seems Avebury too, are now becoming a bit of an albatross. It's the fact that they make us all look like tits that gets me most though. |
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Post by Craig on Sept 4, 2008 12:02:03 GMT -1
You'd have a hard time blowing it up. Most people do not realise that it is sitting in 400 tonnes of very best Ministry of Works concrete. Personally I think we should fence it off for ten years, let the archeologists strip the site down to the bedrock, and then rebuild it to its full glory, replacing the missing stones. Once it is complete we can sell it to a Texan or perhaps a Russian oil billionaire and get shot of the whole monstrosity |
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Post by arth_frown on Sept 4, 2008 12:29:58 GMT -1
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Post by Midori on Sept 5, 2008 18:58:21 GMT -1
I first encountered Stonehenge at the age of 6 (add 0 for current age! ), and I was fascinated by the place. No car park or Visitor Centre, just pull in at the side of the road and take your picnic! It was lovely, birdsong, that everlasting breexe, the odd sheep and the muted hum of the much lighter traffic on the A303. Nowadays I despair at the Stones, going there is like entering a prison, the atmosphere is totally changed. Once it was welcoming, now it seems to brood. Cheers, Midori |
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Post by bram on Sept 17, 2008 17:40:14 GMT -1
I much prefer Avebury, but sometimesgo to the old stones. I used to work in Wells and Stonehenge has some handy public conveniences!
I agree with honouring the ancient dead (or should that be none Christian dead) but it is archeology that adds to our understanding of the people that made the place (or places).
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Post by daibanjo on Oct 2, 2008 15:50:54 GMT -1
I'm more in agreement with Midori than with most here on the subject of Stonehenge. Before moving to the States I was a tour bus driver based in London so I got to visit often. It's very true that the atmosphere has changed over the years, Stonehenge is a place under siege. When free access was allowed visitors would chip off pieces of stone for souvenirs and I've seen photographs of when some prat spray painted "Elvis" across the stones.
The atmosphere had to change when the place got roped off and it does feel almost like the place is in prison. I just don't see any alternative though. It's an amazing piece of architecture and one I never cease to marvel at.
I, for one, would not want it destroyed or removed from the landscape. It has it's place as a tribute to the perseverance and ingenuity of those long gone. Without the proper respect of todays yobbos it seems it must forever be in solitary confinement. Sad.
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Post by clare on Oct 3, 2008 16:48:53 GMT -1
I take some relief in the fact that most Pagans don't get involved in these kinds of things. All the yelping about 'rights' is astonishing, mildly repellent and makes us look like t***s. Where do Pagans think our ideas of what our ancestors did come from?!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 21:19:25 GMT -1
The mere thought of Stonehenge fills my stomach with thick, cloying, heavy dread and loathing - being in close proximity to the place fills me with, quite frankly, abject terror. I have no idea why, just have an overwhelming sense that I am NOT supposed to be there. I know that sounds irrational, and believe me, I have tried and tried to fathom it, with no real success. The place just doesn't like me.
In terms of this recent hoohar, I am in complete agreement with Blackbird.
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Post by Midori on Oct 28, 2008 11:46:29 GMT -1
The atmosphere at Stonehenge has changed, so I am not surprised you feel that way, Boo.
Before the fence went up it was welcoming, but now, it broods and has withdrawn and sometimes feels almost threatening. It doesn't seem to like anyone, nowadays.
Cheers, Midori
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