|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 8:45:56 GMT -1
Post by redraven on Oct 13, 2008 8:45:56 GMT -1
Not wishing to steal Craig's thunder as I appreciate that this was his idea, but some interesting thoughts have surfaced for me about this. Before I commit them to writing, could I ask for peoples opinions about a specific subject that won't go away from me at the moment, UPG. Do we here, think that is important that a section of UPG is built up here, on this site, that can be used as a resource, much like the idea behind the Arbor Low thread?
RR
UPG... Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 11:53:14 GMT -1
Post by Craig on Oct 13, 2008 11:53:14 GMT -1
I have never like the term UPG, particularly for the 'unsubstantiated' part. I have so often seen it used on TDN and other places as a put-down. I have even seen a form of it here when I explained my vision of the Tale of Branwen [The Tears Of Efnisien] which led indirectly to my sabbatical this summer.
If I speak to my gods and they speak to me I really don't feel any need to substantiate it to anyone.
That said I do see what you are getting at and am happy to contribute my own experiences to the pot.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 12:48:30 GMT -1
Post by jez on Oct 13, 2008 12:48:30 GMT -1
The next form 'up' from UPG is Shared Gnosis - and that is powerful stuff. My own take on UPG is that I will ask people about their experiences, and if they match I am chuffed and if it doesn't, I don't dismiss my UPG, but sometimes accept that it was simply something for me, not for others. -- Jez
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 13:28:47 GMT -1
Post by bram on Oct 13, 2008 13:28:47 GMT -1
I agree - I think we can experience the same Gods in different ways, depending upon what we need to learn or in which direction we need prodding.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 13:55:13 GMT -1
Post by Lee on Oct 13, 2008 13:55:13 GMT -1
UPG works as a good catch all term. how you use that term is another matter of course.
like jez says, ideally we will all bring to the tabel our own UPG and walk away with SPG - that should be an aim. if several of us are hitting the same bullseye then we can be sure that the targets really are there.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 14:49:52 GMT -1
Post by littleraven on Oct 13, 2008 14:49:52 GMT -1
I can speak it as a fact that independent shared gnosis is the basis for invitation into some more 'serious' occult groups. It's a visible process evident in many religious systems.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 14:55:23 GMT -1
Post by jez on Oct 13, 2008 14:55:23 GMT -1
Little Raven -- Jez
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 18:21:19 GMT -1
Post by redraven on Oct 13, 2008 18:21:19 GMT -1
Thanks for the replies, just what I needed to make sure I was on the right tracks. Thanks to Craig for expanding his ideas in the separate thread. Shared Personal Gnosis, that is exactly what has been rattling around my head for the last 24 hours. A suggestion, as part of any rade, would it be a useful thing if the attendees were to write down their impressions / thoughts / connections made when traversing the area with the guide. The guide could then collect the written pages and we could see if there was any common shared personal gnosis. If we were brave, we could also post the results on the site. Thoughts please.
RR
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 18:26:53 GMT -1
Post by Craig on Oct 13, 2008 18:26:53 GMT -1
Brave indeed. Thanks for voicing this RR.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 13, 2008 23:10:15 GMT -1
Post by littleraven on Oct 13, 2008 23:10:15 GMT -1
When discussing SPG, then we are faced with something of a paradox.
When we write it down, ownership essentially passes to the group and it's no longer personal or truly verifiable. If it remains individual then it will never be known to others.
It's my opinion that if you wish to share it should be done face to face, with people whose honour and integrity you trust implicitly.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 16:01:14 GMT -1
Post by Blackbird on Oct 14, 2008 16:01:14 GMT -1
However, if we don't feel able to share UPG (or SPG), then the experiential side of Brython will flounder.
I've seen that happen with lots of the Gaelic based groups - they are so deeply into the academic stuff that anyone experiencing something which has no exact parallel in the written sources will be pooh-poohed.
I think whether or not you choose to share should be a personal choice - but not a choice made from fear of ridicule. That hasn't happened here, and I'm keen that this remains a place where people can bring UPG for honest discussion.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 16:11:39 GMT -1
Post by Craig on Oct 14, 2008 16:11:39 GMT -1
I pity the fool that poo-poos any sharing of UPG/SPG in my presence [real or virtual]. The feral/experiential arm of Brython is strong and won't take such put-downs lightly.
Note lack of smileys in this statement...
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 16:13:46 GMT -1
Post by Adam on Oct 14, 2008 16:13:46 GMT -1
I pity the fool that poo-poos any sharing of UPG/SPG in my presence [real or virtual]. The feral/experiential arm of Brython is strong and won't take such put-downs lightly. Note lack of smileys in this statement... <adam hunts for smileys or other hint of light hearted banter> Nope...
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 16:43:16 GMT -1
Post by littleraven on Oct 14, 2008 16:43:16 GMT -1
And the thing that would likely swing the balance on whether you would share it is one of trust, trust in the honour and integrity of those you share it with.
Something we have an excess of here.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 18:21:25 GMT -1
Post by redraven on Oct 14, 2008 18:21:25 GMT -1
My idea was that UPG be shared by members of the rade at the end of the day, the person running the rade would then show the members any common impressions gained. It would be a matter for the members to choose if they wanted to post the results.
RR
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 20:33:23 GMT -1
Post by Lee on Oct 14, 2008 20:33:23 GMT -1
i think that we need to be careful on this - there is the risk of swinging it both ways when sharing(something i am all for btw), we dont want to poo-poo on UPG and we also dont want to to be 'afraid' off offering "criticism" (for want of a better word) of it either, down that road lies the well trodden path of everyone's personal truth which it seems is where the boarding plank for the HMS Druidry lies. a careful balance needs to be struck - and that will i think only be gained with friends and community who are full of trust and respect. i think we we will be fine
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Rades
Oct 14, 2008 21:36:12 GMT -1
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 21:36:12 GMT -1
I don't think we should be wary of offering constructive criticism, after all personal experiences are very easy to misinterpret. The insight of a more objective (or experienced) friend can be incredibly valuable. I doubt any such criticisms from anyone here would be motivated by anything other than a desire to help the individual explore their experiences and challenge their conceptions, which is only a negative thing if what we're reaching for is a spirituality that is based only on what we wish to believe, in which case we'd be in the wrong place.
|
|
|
Rades
Oct 15, 2008 7:19:55 GMT -1
Post by arth_frown on Oct 15, 2008 7:19:55 GMT -1
I loved too take to the hill fort in the Ashdown forest and see what you think about.
|
|