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Post by otho on Nov 25, 2008 13:33:34 GMT -1
Lol - how would you like me to take that ?
Why OE and not OHG?
Perhaps sunnðnlioht would be better than sol.
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Post by jez on Nov 25, 2008 14:12:25 GMT -1
Because OE is Old English and OHG is Old High German... Why would I use OHG? -- Jez |
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Post by otho on Nov 25, 2008 14:19:55 GMT -1
Hold up. Ironically I was originally making a comment concerning the confusion of perspective!
To explain, Sunna is also found in OHG and has the same meaning. I assumed, since you were talking about a Teutonic legend, you would be using OHG. My mistake, my apologies.
We ought to chat sometime. Might be fun.
(modified with perspective)
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Post by Francis on Nov 25, 2008 15:01:35 GMT -1
For example I had a season working with a female deity who was guarding the animals in part of Ashdown Forest. What do you think she was "guarding" the animals for? Why would they be guarded? What fate would guarding them leave them to face? My theory is she used a set of imagery found in my mind to establish contact and make her point. This is all well and good on an individual basis, but if I then say to someone 'Bride came to me, she was this and that, she said these things and has these attributes' I run the risk of polluting both my experience and established myth. The main issue would be the name given, Bride. If she had attributes in common with a more established deity, then that would also be an issue. You see the problem. How comfortable are you with this theory to explain what you felt happened? It seems a little muddled to me. I'm not trying to be awkward just helpfully critical  - I'm not sure if to you "Bride" has an independent existence, is a psychological construct or is some kind of hybrid Holdstockian"mythago"-like being? |
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Post by arth_frown on Nov 25, 2008 17:46:03 GMT -1
For example I had a season working with a female deity who was guarding the animals in part of Ashdown Forest. What do you think she was "guarding" the animals for? Why would they be guarded? What fate would guarding them leave them to face? Maybe the traffic? There has been about 120 collisions with deer in the first 6 months of this year. |
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Post by Lee on Nov 25, 2008 17:53:24 GMT -1
What do you think she was "guarding" the animals for? Why would they be guarded? What fate would guarding them leave them to face? Maybe the traffic? There has been about 120 collisions with deer in the first 6 months of this year. mmmmm... venison... |
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Post by otho on Nov 25, 2008 18:22:55 GMT -1
Francis. I am comfortable with the theory, but it will be proved or disproved for me by the changing of the seasons so I shall have to wait and see. Also I am quite well aware that a theory to me may be hogwash to someone else. Each to their own nature I say.
'Mythago' - I loved the Holdstock books, especially Lavondiss. I heard they were based on some woods near Ashford, Kent.
'Bride' has a separate existence for me - she is her own person. I do not believe that we create the gods, nor that they are some undisclosed part of our psyche. I do believe they employ symbolism personal to the individual to communicate, and that this can be used by others to explain them away.
When I say she guarded the animals, she took some responsibility for their right to exist. For example we moved some old hay bales over the summer and disturbed a wasps nest. I dismantled it and scattered the wasps. We were in conversation later that day and she told me in direct terms I had been far too zealous and must pay penance. Accordingly I fasted for 24 hours, after which she was happy to resume our contact.
She also took me through shaping a number of animals, one after another in a race across a wooded landscape. The animal spirits recognised her authority and were eager to run with her. Later we took these animals one at a time and she explained their states of mind (as much as I could understand them anyway) while we shaped them and explored. I've had an interesting summer.
Arth. The A22 from Nutley to Wych Cross has a ranger sign. The last time I passed it said there had been 200 recorded collisions this year. That's quite a high number considering the stable (after collisions and births) population of deer on the forest in 2007 was around 800. They are such beautiful creatures as well.
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Post by arth_frown on Nov 25, 2008 18:36:30 GMT -1
Arth. The A22 from Nutley to Wych Cross has a ranger sign. The last time I passed it said there had been 200 recorded collisions this year. That's quite a high number considering the stable (after collisions and births) population of deer on the forest in 2007 was around 800. They are such beautiful creatures as well. Yeah I've seen the yellow signs along the A22, 200 collisions now?  Saw a heard of deer to my left going from Nutley towards Forest Row in the valley just after Nutley a few days ago. |
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Post by otho on Nov 25, 2008 18:44:41 GMT -1
That's the one, hopefully I just misread it. Somehow I always seem to be the one driving the car! There was quite a large group this summer down into the woods from Goat car park. Must have been 30-40 I think. My wife and I were out walking the dogs and we stopped to watch them run past. It was about 7 in the morning and the light was perfect. Where I was raised there was little wildlife, apart from the occasional fox, so this kind of thing is just wonderful to me. There have been some tentative signs of boar in the forest as well. Keeping an eye on that one  |
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Post by littleraven on Nov 25, 2008 19:45:01 GMT -1
When I say she guarded the animals, she took some responsibility for their right to exist. For example we moved some old hay bales over the summer and disturbed a wasps nest. I dismantled it and scattered the wasps. We were in conversation later that day and she told me in direct terms I had been far too zealous and must pay penance. Accordingly I fasted for 24 hours, after which she was happy to resume our contact. If the wasps were stupid enough to build their nest in something not permament, why is it you that has to pay 'penance'? <gag> |
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Post by otho on Nov 25, 2008 22:56:21 GMT -1
I have no problem with her response. She had a point.
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Post by Francis on Nov 26, 2008 0:29:11 GMT -1
Otho. Your reply doesn't fit the point I was making, but I don't think it's one that would resonate with you. In fact it would probably iritate you - we see things very differently. I'm not looking to persuade anyone to my view, so I think I'll not labour my point.
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Post by otho on Nov 26, 2008 9:44:47 GMT -1
Have pm'd you Francis I'll get my coat. |
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Post by littleraven on Nov 26, 2008 10:45:51 GMT -1
I'm not sure why you PM Stephen over things spoken publically. We don't generally go in for secrecy here. I'm afraid neither do we go in for simply accepting what people say without some degree of examination. If you leave because people don't agree with you that is your choice, but it's a loss for all of us.
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Post by Lee on Nov 26, 2008 11:14:41 GMT -1
out of interest, did you question her judgement? i mean, did you point out that the wasps were in a dumb ass place?
Stefan - getting back to the originals messages. i think that the core of this theology of yours - minus the stuff about hyperboreans and invented british history - is the beginnings of a very good and very workable mystery tradition rooted in the british isles. it has a strong mythic theme that is applicable to the landscape around us. not only does it have an outer mythic cycle but also an inner mythic one that reflects on the person involved. simple rituals with ritual plays acting out the roles could be very powerful in this. it has the potential makings of something akin to Wicca, if you get my meaning.
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Post by jez on Nov 26, 2008 11:34:20 GMT -1
Hold up. Ironically I was originally making a comment concerning the confusion of perspective! To explain, Sunna is also found in OHG and has the same meaning. I assumed, since you were talking about a Teutonic legend, you would be using OHG. My mistake, my apologies. We ought to chat sometime. Might be fun. (modified with perspective) Aye, it might. Though the folk-tale I was quoting is Mercian, and told by firesides in Nottinghamshire. -- Jez |
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Post by otho on Nov 26, 2008 11:54:53 GMT -1
Littleraven, I'm only leaving the discussion. Rein it in a little! As to your comments, PM'ing someone gives them the room to explain, and you have the room to ask questions, without worrying about sidetracking the thread further. This is consideration, not secrecy. Francis expressed a little concern the conversation might become heated. I wanted to reassure him and give him all the space he needed for us to understand each other. Again, consideration. For goodness sake. 'the wasps were stupid' does not constitute a caring attitude towards the land and its inhabitants. What is the point of comment like this? How is this an example of your tag line? Thirdly, I do not expect people to accept what I say. I do expect the same consideration shown to others. Bring on the hassle and I'll assume you've no problem having it handed back to you. I'll leave you to chew it over, eh! Ancestrallee - as I said I have no issue with her stance, she had a point. I was in contact with a spirit who cared about the animals in the area - I should have just moved the nest. Besides, what's 24hrs fasting? Nothing. She required a token so I gave it. No problems. Jez - Mercia, eh? You learn something every day |
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Post by littleraven on Nov 26, 2008 14:26:29 GMT -1
Okay, misunderstood. But I don’t do reining, what you see is what you get.
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Post by otho on Nov 26, 2008 14:52:11 GMT -1
ROFL. I'd just like to make it clear - these are the last damn answers you're getting out of me on the subject.
OK but if you intend to take that line you should understand when people tell you to take a hike.
I can respect that. My point wasn't about the wasps, I was asked in what way did this spirit guard the animals in the area.
It is not up to me to care for wasps, but I am happy to learn to accept that they exist and have every right to do so.
Fine. Neo-pagan fluffy bunny is one thing, arrogant control feak is another. Lets call a spud a spud shall we.
Questioned? Fine, I can be a little less deferential and a little more 'questioning'.
I learned a little more about her boundaries and how to respect them
It did not help the wasps one bit, but I shall think next time
Having accepted her custody of the area, I honored her wishes as I might any other individual when I enter their home
She wanted to know our conversation was not just a one way street in my favour
I thought about how best to relate to the animals around me if given a choice. That includes wasps
They had no need of a new nest, they were dead
She is not my god. As I say, I suspect she wanted to know whether I was prepared to give some consideration to her views
Since I had behaved in a way she disapproved of this was a good opportunity for her to test my intent over a specific matter. I am happy to be someone who lives up to his words.
It is not unreasonable for a spirit to ask things in return for help or information. This is especially true in my tradition. I benefited greatly from my association with Bride and see no issue with showing respect in return. Respect does not constitute worship, just manners.
If you want to throw more mud you can always PM me
Now move on.
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- I'm not sure if to you "Bride" has an independent existence, is a psychological construct or is some kind of hybrid Holdstockian"mythago"-like being?
Saw a heard of deer to my left going from Nutley towards Forest Row in the valley just after Nutley a few days ago.
