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Post by Adam on Mar 7, 2009 16:56:58 GMT -1
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Post by littleraven on Mar 9, 2009 19:04:18 GMT -1
I detest the memory of the great traitoress. If I knew where her grave was, I'd piss on it. |
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Post by redraven on Mar 9, 2009 19:23:35 GMT -1
I detest the memory of the great traitoress. If I knew where her grave was, I'd piss on it. Don't be shy, LR, tell us what you think! ;D RR |
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Post by Adam on Mar 9, 2009 20:14:18 GMT -1
I detest the memory of the great traitoress. If I knew where her grave was, I'd piss on it. Don't be shy, LR, tell us what you think! ;D RR Yeah, I can't stand this mincing with words ;D |
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Post by littleraven on Mar 10, 2009 12:12:07 GMT -1
I could be more visibly 'forthright' in my opinion of the Brigantian w****, but I think I would then have to moderate myself and that would set up a logic loop like wot happens to robots in sci-fi films, and I would explode.
Anyone for a seperate discussion of Cartimadua <spit> the historical traitor.
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Post by megli on Mar 11, 2009 10:11:23 GMT -1
....overreaction...? We're all a long time dead and there's plenty of people who have betrayed britain and its land much worse. Also we don't have her words, her opinion or access to her own precise motives, and it's all too easy to judge harshly with hindsight. I dunno. I find excortiating someone who's been dead for 1900 years a bit peculiar, especially as I doubt very much that her actions or lack of them made any difference in the long run.
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Post by Tegernacus on Mar 11, 2009 10:24:42 GMT -1
oh, I dunno. Maybe British history would have been different if Caractacus was still running around the hills, instead of sipping vino in Roma. Maybe not. But it's the small things that change history in dramatic ways.
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Post by littleraven on Mar 11, 2009 10:52:40 GMT -1
....overreaction...? We're all a long time dead and there's plenty of people who have betrayed britain and its land much worse. Also we don't have her words, her opinion or access to her own precise motives, and it's all too easy to judge harshly with hindsight. I dunno. I find excortiating someone who's been dead for 1900 years a bit peculiar, especially as I doubt very much that her actions or lack of them made any difference in the long run. Perhaps it is an overreaction, but however you look at it there are plenty of long dead people whose actions have had a profound effect on the nature of a society. Considering the military investment of the Romans in Britain, if Cartimandua and the Brigantes had originally sided with Caradoc it's entirely likely the Romans would have cut their losses and pulled. At one point an entire *one third* of the Roman army was based in Britain, to counter the miltary efforts of a guerilla leader who was at large for *TEN YEARS*. The weight of the Brigantes would have almost certainly have swung it. Even without Caratacos, post Cartimandua, the Brigantians under Venutius caused quite a significant problem, but by then the damage had been done to the British identity. If the Romans had left we would have had a different society. Christianity wouldn't have arrived when it did, the Saxons most likely wouldn't have had the influence they had, there would have been no Norman claim to England thus a differnet Middle Ages. Our history would have been much more continuous, perhaps paralleling Germanic history. |
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Post by Adam on Mar 11, 2009 19:31:40 GMT -1
Damn I'm gonna have to get that book.
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Post by clare on Mar 27, 2009 12:27:10 GMT -1
I'm not completely au fait with Cartimandua but she seems to get a bad press whereas Boudicca is universally adored. My understanding is that Cartimandua maintained something like peace for 30 years. If this is so perhaps ordinary farmers and craftsmen with children enjoyed not being raped and pillaged and so on. 30 years peace is not to be sniffed at.
Boudicca, meanwhile, encouraged abject savagery.
It's always interested me why Cartimandua is treated with violent contempt for keeping a stable economic and peaceful kingdom.
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Post by dreamguardian on Mar 27, 2009 17:05:19 GMT -1
I'm not completely au fait with Cartimandua but she seems to get a bad press whereas Boudicca is universally adored. My understanding is that Cartimandua maintained something like peace for 30 years. If this is so perhaps ordinary farmers and craftsmen with children enjoyed not being raped and pillaged and so on. 30 years peace is not to be sniffed at. Boudicca, meanwhile, encouraged abject savagery. It's always interested me why Cartimandua is treated with violent contempt for keeping a stable economic and peaceful kingdom. She took the roman bribe for peace at the expense of her tribes people & of fellow countrymen of other tribes. Power was the driving force. Ancient politics was no different to the politicians of today who care nothing for this country to build their own interests in the EU (modern Rome Empire-ish). Boudica with her husband did take the rome pill originally. She is admired because she fought back against the invaders after their public abuse of her & stripping her power away. The revolt was brutal & savage but the invaders had been abusing the people of this country for a long time. The oppressors weren't invited as well as they dished enough brutality out & got what they deserved IMHO. No fluffy liberal sentiments from me. |
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Post by clare on Mar 28, 2009 8:08:34 GMT -1
We agree that people who seek power are usually least likely to be trusted with it. And that goes for Boudicca too. Generally speaking, mothers and fathers who don't want their childs head smashed in or their elderly parents burned or impaled aren't being liberal and fluffy. Not enjoying the idea of Total War isn't liberal or fluffy.
That many modern Pagans declare that they detest politics and then repeat lynchmob political sentiments when it comes to Cartimandua and Boudicca. Most of those who detest Cartimandua and respect Boudicca have never come anywhere near meaningful physical violence let alone war.
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Post by dreamguardian on Mar 28, 2009 16:38:54 GMT -1
We agree that people who seek power are usually least likely to be trusted with it. And that goes for Boudicca too. Generally speaking, mothers and fathers who don't want their childs head smashed in or their elderly parents burned or impaled aren't being liberal and fluffy. Not enjoying the idea of Total War isn't liberal or fluffy. That many modern Pagans declare that they detest politics and then repeat lynchmob political sentiments when it comes to Cartimandua and Boudicca. Most of those who detest Cartimandua and respect Boudicca have never come anywhere near meaningful physical violence let alone war. I wasn't pointing fingers, Clare. Merely expresing a view why some people dislike Cartimandua. I'm from South London & was brought up with violence all around me. I never had a priviledged upbringing and have had to fight my way to where I am now, in more ways than one. My history has been dark & not always pleasant. I seek solace in my ancestors & how they lived & dealt with far worse. I don't detest politics just some who are entrusted with that power. I don't advocate or condone lynch mob mentality either but there are times when oppression needs to be stopped. The only way sometimes to do that, when everything else fails is by meeting it with violence. Not big, clever or pretty. Those who know me certainly wouldn't describe me as the epitomy of a new age modern pagan. A fluffy wishy washy liberal, I'm not. It's why I like it here so much. Rob |
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