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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 21:27:15 GMT -1
Hello everyone,
I am making my way through 'The Mabinogion' for the second time. I was wondering if there were particular parts that I should pay more attention to than others? Or if there were certain things to keep in mind while reading it?
I am an avid reader but this is a bit different. I don't want to read this a simply stories but try to absorb what they are conveying. Any suggestions are appreciated!
Zoe
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Post by Heron on Nov 16, 2010 22:14:45 GMT -1
Hello everyone, I am making my way through 'The Mabinogion' for the second time. I was wondering if there were particular parts that I should pay more attention to than others? Or if there were certain things to keep in mind while reading it? I am an avid reader but this is a bit different. I don't want to read this a simply stories but try to absorb what they are conveying. Any suggestions are appreciated! Zoe Hello Zoe As you have already read the tales through and have an outline familiarity with them, I would recommend reading thematically to think more about a particular thing that interests you, like considering the presentation of Rhiannon in the First and Third of the Four Branches or thinking about some of the episodes in Culhwch and Olwen. There is some secondary discussion in past threads on here which might spark of a particular line of enquiry, and also references to other works, though some of these might only be accessible in a good library. Or, if you have a particular insight from your reading, start a discussion! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 2:02:59 GMT -1
Hello everyone, I am making my way through 'The Mabinogion' for the second time. I was wondering if there were particular parts that I should pay more attention to than others? Or if there were certain things to keep in mind while reading it? I am an avid reader but this is a bit different. I don't want to read this a simply stories but try to absorb what they are conveying. Any suggestions are appreciated! Zoe Hello Zoe As you have already read the tales through and have an outline familiarity with them, I would recommend reading thematically to think more about a particular thing that interests you, like considering the presentation of Rhiannon in the First and Third of the Four Branches or thinking about some of the episodes in Culhwch and Olwen. There is some secondary discussion in past threads on here which might spark of a particular line of enquiry, and also references to other works, though some of these might only be accessible in a good library. Or, if you have a particular insight from your reading, start a discussion! Thanks! Those are really good suggestions. I will keep that in mind while I'm reading. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 14:40:06 GMT -1
I am getting a bit ... well, 'put out' or upset with all the Christian translations. It is a bit frustrating to constantly be getting a feeling of 'turn to the Lord' while reading this book.  Otherwise I am starting to remember and recognize names. I think I'm going to make out some sort of 'character tree' so I can keep up with who did what and how they relate to everyone else, if they do. |
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Post by Heron on Nov 20, 2010 15:44:43 GMT -1
I am getting a bit ... well, 'put out' or upset with all the Christian translations. It is a bit frustrating to constantly be getting a feeling of 'turn to the Lord' while reading this book. Otherwise I am starting to remember and recognize names. I think I'm going to make out some sort of 'character tree' so I can keep up with who did what and how they relate to everyone else, if they do. As these tales were written down in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries they are bound to have a christian background although this is not anything like as pronounced as most literature of the period. I presume by 'translations' you mean the way the earlier oral material has been put into the contemporary christian social background material ? (There is nothing in the English versions in this respect that is not in the Welsh original). It seems to me that Culhwch and Olwen in particular contains things which reflect earlier sources with a particularly vivid slant (see: gorsedd-arberth.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-culhwch-won-olwen.htmlThe Four Branches are more 'literary' and sophisticated but, because set in an earlier time, strongly imbued with a fey otherness. The later Arthurian tales are more overtly christian , but I think this is because they are set, like Arthurian tales in French and English of the period, in contemporary christian society. Reading 'through' these (if that is what we should do) is therefore more difficult. But at least one of these tales is, I think, meant satirically to parody the genre. See: gorsedd-arberth.blogspot.com/2010/02/dream-of-rhonabwy.htmlI hope this helps. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 21:34:04 GMT -1
There were parts that helped but mostly I do not think I am very good at reading myths and getting anything from them.  |
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Post by Francis on Nov 21, 2010 0:01:16 GMT -1
There were parts that helped but mostly I do not think I am very good at reading myths and getting anything from them. I think this reflects more a misplaced expectation of what 'pagan wisdom' can be found in these tales rather than any inability on your part. The so-called 'celtic' minded neo-pagan community often mistakenly imagines these stories to contain and be something more than they are - or at the very least imagines them to be something quite different than they actually are. That's not to say that they aren't wonderful and valuable. I think they are at their most valuable however within the context of their original landscape. I believe you might find some extra benefit in reading them in concert with some research into the geography of Wales - if only pictures! |
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Post by Heron on Nov 21, 2010 17:46:01 GMT -1
There were parts that helped but mostly I do not think I am very good at reading myths and getting anything from them. I think this reflects more a misplaced expectation of what 'pagan wisdom' can be found in these tales rather than any inability on your part. The so-called 'celtic' minded neo-pagan community often mistakenly imagines these stories to contain and be something more than they are - or at the very least imagines them to be something quite different than they actually are. Yes I think it's a mistake to regard the tales as self-sufficient myths in their own right. They are literary constructions made out of various elements which include legend, folklore and remnant mythological fragments which had survived in the oral tradition from which the story tellers gathered their material. There has been some debate as to the extent to which the medieval authors and/or the audience understood the mythological elements. The folklore and legendary elements I feel were understood as such, and these are often interesting in their own right too. There used to be a school of thought among experts that myths could be reconstructed from the tales. That is no longer the case except in neo-pagan circles. But we do know that characters such as Rhiannon have their origin in Brythonic deities. And the stories which attach to them do have resonance, which is why I feel that a thematic reading often renders more mythological insights than trying to read the whole tales as whole myths. Though I do think they are good stories. In this respect the translations of John Bollard which have been published with photographs of the places mentioned in the text, do work as a sort of mythic geography of Wales as I have argued in my review of them in the current issue of PLANET www.planetmagazine.org.uk/html/newsite/current.htm magazine. |
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Post by megli on Nov 28, 2010 10:59:02 GMT -1
Totally with you, Francis and Heron. Zoe, I think the thing to do is to read them for their own sake, rather than in search of pristine 'Celtic myth'.
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