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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 10:37:50 GMT -1
Is She *the* Genius Loci, a Goddess of Sovereignty, both? Is She too big to establish a relationship with? Is it stupid to try and reach a Genius Loci (even a really big one) from thousand miles away, or does it make a lot of sense as anything from the British Isles would be a part of Her? Huh as I was typing this these were the lyrics playing from the song I was listening too "There's a gap you can't ignore, When your heart's so far away," Coincidence? probably. Interesting? definitely! Eirian
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Post by nellie on Jan 16, 2011 12:48:13 GMT -1
I've never really thought of Britannia as a goddess. Britannia has always seemed a bit like a roman 'picture' rather than an actual entity, an artistic rendering sort of to me. I don't know how true this is? The notion of Britannia feels a bit like the personification of Roman Britain rather than Britain. Other people will disagree I expect As I have no experience of a goddess Britannia I'm probably not best qualified to add my thoughts anyway, but I do like to get my 2p worth in!
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Post by Lee on Jan 16, 2011 15:00:21 GMT -1
my view has always been that it was originally just the name used for this cluster of islands, which then got 'personified' in the lady on our 50p pieces.
i wasnt too sure, went and check and found that this was the case, and the idea of a woman called Britannia was more a revival movement.
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Post by megli on Jan 16, 2011 16:43:57 GMT -1
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Post by Adam on Jan 16, 2011 19:05:47 GMT -1
The idea of Brittania as a Goddess leaves me with the same unpleasant feeling that I got when I discovered that some US pagan groups worship Columbia as a Goddess and for pretty much the same reasons... the personification of a nation does not a Goddess make... only the potential for rather unpleasant forms of nationalism...
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Post by Heron on Jan 16, 2011 19:42:08 GMT -1
I gather the figure first appeared reclining on shield on a roman coin of Antonius Pius (died 161 c.e.). Charles II revived it on a coin and I think it took on imperialistic overtones from then on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 4:44:59 GMT -1
I kind of thought that too but then I found this www.roman-britain.org/romano-british-gods.htm which means that at least the Romans thought of her as a guardian land spirit, maybe the locals didn't (fish not noticing the water type thing) but seeing as I am an outsider like the Romans, it made certain type of sense to me. I've never really thought of Britannia as a goddess. Britannia has always seemed a bit like a roman 'picture' rather than an actual entity, an artistic rendering sort of to me. I don't know how true this is? The notion of Britannia feels a bit like the personification of Roman Britain rather than Britain. Other people will disagree I expect As I have no experience of a goddess Britannia I'm probably not best qualified to add my thoughts anyway, but I do like to get my 2p worth in!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 4:46:25 GMT -1
I did know about the revival movement, but the Romans also mentioned Her which got me wondering..... my view has always been that it was originally just the name used for this cluster of islands, which then got 'personified' in the lady on our 50p pieces. i wasnt too sure, went and check and found that this was the case, and the idea of a woman called Britannia was more a revival movement.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 4:47:50 GMT -1
Ha well she won in the end, the Romans got too cold and went home eventually
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 4:50:23 GMT -1
Wow, yeah nationalism really didn't even occur to me, but I am the probably the least nationalistic person ever so it wouldn't I suppose. I get a really really different picture in my head than nation worshiping when I think of Britannia. The idea of Brittania as a Goddess leaves me with the same unpleasant feeling that I got when I discovered that some US pagan groups worship Columbia as a Goddess and for pretty much the same reasons... the personification of a nation does not a Goddess make... only the potential for rather unpleasant forms of nationalism...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 4:57:45 GMT -1
So I guess the question is should She be reclaimed, although if She was more of a Roman deity then not so much for Brythonic practices, I could add her to my Roman pantheon though seeing I don't have any nationalistic or imperial baggage associated with Her. I gather the figure first appeared reclining on shield on a roman coin of Antonius Pius (died 161 c.e.). Charles II revived it on a coin and I think it took on imperialistic overtones from then on.
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Post by Adam on Jan 17, 2011 6:40:44 GMT -1
Wow, yeah nationalism really didn't even occur to me, but I am the probably the least nationalistic person ever so it wouldn't I suppose. I get a really really different picture in my head than nation worshiping when I think of Britannia. The idea of Brittania as a Goddess leaves me with the same unpleasant feeling that I got when I discovered that some US pagan groups worship Columbia as a Goddess and for pretty much the same reasons... the personification of a nation does not a Goddess make... only the potential for rather unpleasant forms of nationalism... To be honest, it is probably a personal thing... a reaction to too many years of "Rule Brittania" and a youth spent in the Baden-Powell military wing (Boy Scouts)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 6:54:02 GMT -1
Wow, yeah nationalism really didn't even occur to me, but I am the probably the least nationalistic person ever so it wouldn't I suppose. I get a really really different picture in my head than nation worshiping when I think of Britannia. To be honest, it is probably a personal thing... a reaction to too many years of "Rule Brittania" and a youth spent in the Baden-Powell military wing (Boy Scouts) So does the concept perhaps without the name merit a closer inspection I wonder?
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Post by nellie on Jan 17, 2011 11:42:33 GMT -1
Just speaking from a personal perspective I can't sense Britain as a whole SoP. Maybe because I'm too small and Britain is too large or simply because Britain is too diverse both now and way back when. Each place has its own feel for me, just as people do.
As to sensing SoP from a long way off - I once had a bit of a relationship with Dublin over the course of a few years. Having visited once and said 'hello' (as it were) I knew the 'feel' of the Dublin SoP and that aquaintance grew with subsequent visits. Even over a stretch of water and miles of land, afterwards I did feel that I could reach out to the SoP and feel some sort of responce which would be stronger if I knew which direction to turn my attention (as in compass direction). So in my experience I was able to form a relationship with SoP from a long way off but I needed to physically visit before that could happen. I couldn't just decide to try to sense the spirit of Ben Nevis for example, from where I sit. I would have to go there and bother to introduce myself, feel the air on my skin, taste it, smell it... you get the idea. How much distance such an aquaintance could stretch I don't know. From the east coast of Ireland to the east coast of England I could feel Dublin, but it felt a long way off. Like waving to somebody at the far end of a football pitch.
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Post by crowman on Jan 17, 2011 13:08:47 GMT -1
Like waving to an aquaintance maybe? Like recognising someone you know in a crowd of people? I recognise unique and different SoP from around Britain, a bit like people; for instance a forest in Warwickshire feels different to me than a forest in Cumbria and a mountain in Wales has a completely different feel to a mountain in Devon (ok, so theres only one in Devon and its only just an official mountain) but you get my point... I cant really associate an entire country to a SoP because there are so many flavours and differences its just too difficult
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 20:32:01 GMT -1
Just speaking from a personal perspective I can't sense Britain as a whole SoP. Maybe because I'm too small and Britain is too large or simply because Britain is too diverse both now and way back when. Each place has its own feel for me, just as people do. This is true, I got quite a different feeling from the Lake District than Cornwall for example. I think what it is though is that in my mind when I think "Britannia" all of it flows into my mind at once. It's like an envelope for lots of different separate bits if that makes any kind of sense at all. Sometimes I feel closer and sometimes very far away. I think that possibly having a physical link helps me as well. I have some well water and a special tree leaf (as well as gifts from my relatives from over the years but those are less directly from the land). I have a lot of happy family memories as well which helps too I think It's still very tenuous though which is why I am trying to figure it out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 20:36:11 GMT -1
Like waving to an aquaintance maybe? Like recognising someone you know in a crowd of people? I recognise unique and different SoP from around Britain, a bit like people; for instance a forest in Warwickshire feels different to me than a forest in Cumbria and a mountain in Wales has a completely different feel to a mountain in Devon (ok, so theres only one in Devon and its only just an official mountain) but you get my point... I cant really associate an entire country to a SoP because there are so many flavours and differences its just too difficult I think of the land more than the country (or countries) see my envelope metaphor I gave Nellie. Although this whole concept seems like a non starter, at least outside the confines of my own head, which is good to know I suppose.
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