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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2012 11:33:02 GMT -1
Hiya all, It's only been a few weeks now since I stumbled across Brython and found myself drawn to a Brythonic tradition, and as such, I'm unsure of how to start. I know that with a path such as this it's good to begin with reading and researching, but to be honest I'm not even sure how to begin on that front. I'm working my way through Alwyn and Brinley Rees' Celtic Heritage because I saw it recommended on Brython and a number of other sites, but really, what's the best way to start learning about the Celts, and more specifically, the Brythonic peoples - The myths, the archaeology or more interpretative texts such as this one? And beyond reading, how best does one put what they read into practice? I can read about the Gods until the cows come home, but I'm unsure of how one actually begins establishing a relationship with the Gods and building some sort of practice? I feel a bit thick, I know most of the people on this forum have constructed their own practices more or less, but I feel hopelessly uncreative and a bit overwhelmed to be honest. Thank you  |
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Post by potia on Sept 14, 2012 14:05:01 GMT -1
Hi Corey and welcome, It's difficult really to give a clear place to begin as you really need to look at a range of things but try not to feel overwhelmed by it all. Believe me we've all been there The myths are sketchy at best and many of them may well have been written much later than our brythonica pagan ancestors were around. Reading the myths is a good way to tap into some of the imagery that has become associated with gods and heros and can give an indication of what things particular gods may have been worshipped for but it's only an idea. The archeology will give you facts about what little has been discovered and some theories of what some things may have meant or been used for. Some of thoes theories are wilder than others the interpretive are again interesting and can give a feel for a bigger picture but again you have to keep a critical eye open while reading. So where to start? My suggestion would be with a name or idea of a deity that resonates in you for some reason. For me it was Epona. Find out about the archology left if any about that deity, read the associated myths and see what pops up in interpretive materials by all means but most of all take some time to think about what that being means to you personally. What you are aiming to do is build your own personal relationship with that deity and that will take time and be utterly unique to you. It may have commonalities with what others practice and come out of the same foundations but your relationship will be unique because you are unique. Take a look at the materials members of Brython have written about their practices at: www.dunbrython.org/ritual-and-liturgy.html If any of it applies to the deity that you are most drawn to then feel free to use it, that's what it is there for If not can any of it be adapted to suit? For example most deities seem to like offerings and alcohol always seem to go down fairly well so makes a reasonable starting point. All of this implies starting with the deities and that may not be the best approach for you at all. Have a think about your ancestors near and far. Maybe starting to develop a straonger relationship with them is the best place for you to start. Or maybe it's the land you live on. If it is the land, take walks and open yourself up to what spirits live there. Take offerings with you (for land spirits water and something like wild bird food often go down well). Commune with the Land, get to know it and let it get to know you. Again the key is that you are building relationships and that takes time. Hope that helps. Blessings Potia. |
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Post by Heron on Sept 14, 2012 22:11:26 GMT -1
Hello Corey
A response to your queries. First the question of books: The problem for present-day reconstructionists who wish to base their practice on academic research is that currently academics in the field tend towards caution. In the past they tended to base their interpretations on theories about Brythonic religion which were grounded in the assumption that myths could be recovered from 'corrupted' later material from the medieval period, or that comments about the gods by Roman historians (often writing at one remove) could be trusted, and the the bits of archaeology that could contribute would be fitted in to the interpretation. More recently these assumptions have been challenged and scholars tend to be less ready to commit themselves to definite links between medieval stories and ancient myths. Perhaps the last great discoverer of myths in the old tradition was W J Gruffudd's books including Rhiannon (1953). He started with established linguistic links between Rhiannon in the Mabinogi stories and the Brythonic Rigantona, trying to recreate her myth from the medieval stories. Nowadays scholars tend to applaud his pioneering work but decline to accept his precise reconstructions ,or, more particularly, the idea that any such reconstruction is possible. So instead they do other things like write about the medieval reception of the works and what they say about medieval society rather than Brythonic society. I can think of a few working in the field that still hang on to mythological interpretations, e.g. Patrick Ford's introduction to his edition of the Mabinogi. But generally it is out of fashion. Alwyn and Brinley Rees' associations between Irish and Welsh material and links to eastern traditions no longer get a second look. If mentioned at all it is to show that such links can't be proved.
So what to do? I'd say read all you can but read older books for inspiration rather than hard information. They may lead you to further experiences. Maybe the gods will speak through these texts to you regardless of their factual accuracy.
On the second question of how to approach the gods, I have little to add in general terms to what Potia has written. You need to build a relationship and you might have to experiment with devotional acknowledgements and expressions of commitment. Really it is one of those things that develops as you do it rather than something you can get hold of ready formed. Work at things until you find a flicker of response, then nurture it.
Or, to put it another way and in a different context, spaces in the Other World expand in parallel with spaces we make for them in this world.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2012 14:45:32 GMT -1
Potia and Heron, thank you both for your responses. I suppose I'm jumping into things a bit too quickly, I've always been a bit over eager. I'm hoping to find some ready made path for me to follow, but I fear that the path I wish to take has become overgrown and will need careful and steady tending to before I can get where I want to. Oh well, that's part of the fun really, innit?  I'll take both of your advice to heart, I'll continue reading as much as I can get my grubby little paws on and start making small steps forward in terms of making connections with the Gods, land and my ancestors. Heron, I've read previously that when you were first starting out on your path it was Rhiannon/Rigantona who you were drawn to initially...Can you recommend any resources really from which I could learn more about Her? It's strange because I feel like nothing about Her has really called to me before, but recently (after reading a lot on Brython and on here) I've been thinking about Her more and more as the Goddess of the land, her title as Great Queen and such and have found myself increasingly drawn to Her. She even found Her way into my dream the other night, not as the Goddess herself, but as a photo of her that I was entranced by... Thank you both! |
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Post by potia on Sept 16, 2012 8:33:13 GMT -1
For me Rigantona and Epona are the same being. Some will agree with this and others won't Anyway you may find this site useful. epona.net/ |
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Post by Heron on Sept 16, 2012 12:45:52 GMT -1
Heron, I've read previously that when you were first starting out on your path it was Rhiannon/Rigantona who you were drawn to initially...Can you recommend any resources really from which I could learn more about Her? It's strange because I feel like nothing about Her has really called to me before, but recently (after reading a lot on Brython and on here) I've been thinking about Her more and more as the Goddess of the land, her title as Great Queen and such and have found myself increasingly drawn to Her. She even found Her way into my dream the other night, not as the Goddess herself, but as a photo of her that I was entranced by... I was first drawn to Rhiannon as she appears in the First and Third 'branches' of the Mabinogi. At the time I was part of a wiccan-style group and thought mainly in terms of different aspects of 'The God' and 'The Goddess'. So while she appealed to me over the other characters in the tales as magical and mysterious, it took a while for her influence on me to develop into a response, though I did write a story for a pagan magazine where I began to draw her into my thinking about the gods. A few subsequent experiences - and one very powerful one involving a horse - convinced me that the writing of the story had engendered a response. I've gradually built my personal practice from there and feel myself lucky to have found others such as those on this forum who share aspects of that practice. So I'd say read the stories in the Mabinogion collection, and W J Gruffydd if you can get hold of him (summarised at : www.rigantona.net/rigantona.html). Much of the other available material referring directly to Rigantona and Rhiannon stems from these sources or discussions of them. It is my own (possibly eccentric) view that Faery Queen figures such as the one that carries of Thomas of Erceldoune in the 'Thomas the Rhymer' ballad should be included too (see elsewhere on the website linked to above). I think it is the way of things that people are drawn to her in the way you describe, and I think she appreciates intention more that formal practice. If she is appearing in your dreams then I'd say that's a pretty good start! |
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Post by Heron on Sept 16, 2012 12:54:46 GMT -1
For me Rigantona and Epona are the same being. Some will agree with this and others won't Anyway you may find this site useful. epona.net/I'd agree more than disagree, Potia. But I'd want to be a bit subtle about what 'the same' means. Gods can be the same in some senses and yet different in others. Even if there is no change of name this can happen. Think of how a god such as Apollo in Greece varies in different stories about him, though he is 'the same' god. |
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Post by redraven on Sept 19, 2012 7:29:44 GMT -1
I'd agree more than disagree, Potia. But I'd want to be a bit subtle about what 'the same' means. Gods can be the same in some senses and yet different in others. Even if there is no change of name this can happen. Think of how a god such as Apollo in Greece varies in different stories about him, though he is 'the same' god. I think that this is actually quite a good thing because it demonstrates a depth to the individual God / ess which shows we do indeed share commonality (think of how the "person" you are at work may be fundamentally different from the "person" you are in your leisure time.) Corey, my relationship is one built primarily with the land. Interactions with named deities have been quite a late thing for me and they have been quite specific to individual deities at specific times so if you haven't experienced this sort of thing before then I wouldn't worry about it. One thing I can confirm though, is that there isn't a "set" pathway similar to what is "offered" through some of the Abrahamic religions and speaking from experience, the art of patience is one worth nurturing early on in your practice. RR |
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Post by dreamguardian on Sept 21, 2012 10:44:47 GMT -1
Hi Corey
It can be really overwhelming so just keep things simple. Start slow and small, as the others have suggested.
For me, the best advice I can give is: keep your bullshit radar on at all times. There's so much BS and nonsense attached to the modern pagan scene.
What areas seem important to you, treat the info as dodgy at first, match it against references, academic, archaelogy etc. Not the other wat around - If that makes any sense?!
You started the ball rolling on here again which is great because it helps us re-focus too
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 8:09:21 GMT -1
I think that this is actually quite a good thing because it demonstrates a depth to the individual God / ess which shows we do indeed share commonality (think of how the "person" you are at work may be fundamentally different from the "person" you are in your leisure time.) Humans have a variety of 'sides' to them, don't they? How I appear to a co-worker is going to be different than how I appear to my partner? Human's have fluid personalities, constantly changing, growing and what not. I suspect the Gods are very much the same, in a way... Epona and Rigantona could possibly be different expressions of the same deity, and therefore learning about them both allows one deeper knowledge of the Goddess behind the names, is that about right? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 8:18:16 GMT -1
RR and Dreamguardian, Thank you both for your advice. RR, as much as I'd love to start establishing a connection with the land, I struggle to get out to it. My partner and I am struggling to afford a car and car insurance (we're still quite young so it's dear as all hell), and we live in a rough area of the West Midlands and the only natural areas round our parts are usually full of cannabis smoking yobs, lol. As soon as we can afford it though, we'll be getting a car to allow for trips out to the country. Dreamguardian, I'm well aware of the bullshit out there, for ages I was 'into' Traditional Wicca and Witchcraft and the amount of rubbish parading as Wicca and such used to get me livid. At the moment, I'm starting with all academic sources, get my head round the facts before I stray into 'experimental' and UPG territory. |
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Post by redraven on Sept 26, 2012 4:58:06 GMT -1
RR, as much as I'd love to start establishing a connection with the land, I struggle to get out to it. My partner and I am struggling to afford a car and car insurance (we're still quite young so it's dear as all hell), and we live in a rough area of the West Midlands and the only natural areas round our parts are usually full of cannabis smoking yobs, lol. As soon as we can afford it though, we'll be getting a car to allow for trips out to the country. Why do you think that you have to get out to the countryside to establish a connection? My connections were nurtured in the sites of former coal mines in the east midlands (where I lived until recently). Isn't there public transport where you live? A day out using public transport shouldn't be prohibitively expensive I would have thought. When I moved up here in Glasgow I was living in a second floor flat for several months but I still have managed to forge connections even though technically, my feet weren't on the earth. Connections can be started (in my experience) by opening the mind first, then going out to discover a physical expression of that connection. RR |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 22:12:52 GMT -1
I don't understand how one can establish a connect to the land without being out in it.....of course, I suppose even in a metropolitan area there's still land, in some form or another, lol. It's just not as nice as being out in the country though, is it really? Can you clarify what you mean by establishing connections through opening one's mind? And how that relates to connecting with the Land, a different spirits of the Land? Thank you |
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Post by redraven on Sept 29, 2012 17:25:25 GMT -1
I don't understand how one can establish a connect to the land without being out in it.....of course, I suppose even in a metropolitan area there's still land, in some form or another, lol. It's just not as nice as being out in the country though, is it really? How long has the metropolitan land been metropolitan? In the scheme of geographical time, barely any time at all. I agree that urban areas can appear to be somehow spiritual-less (if such a word exists ) but you have to realise that wildlife also inhabits these areas too, some of it actually thriving. Therefore, the "feel" of an urban environment can appear to be different to the rural land. Different but not devoid of spirit. Can you clarify what you mean by establishing connections through opening one's mind? I can only speak for how I approach such a thing, but basically, the first steps I take is to engage with the land through the wildlife within an area by spending a regular amount of time out in it. For me, this means taking a good early morning walk for about an hour when not at work. I usually take an amount of wild bird seed with me which I leave in various amounts at various spots on the walk. This early morning session, for me, clarifies the mind and allows connections to develop. And how that relates to connecting with the Land, a different spirits of the Land? Thank you Engaging with the other than human life using this method usually results in a connection starting to take shape. My experience suggests engagement in this way is condusive with the local spirits of the land. RR |
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Post by Heron on Sept 29, 2012 19:05:28 GMT -1
I suppose even in a metropolitan area there's still land, in some form or another, lol. It's just not as nice as being out in the country though, is it really? My preference is for the country, but it's not just about what is nice. Spirits, as RR indicates, can be discovered wherever you are: Here's a bit of something I once wrote: ...
These spirit messages
Spoken in the trees or by the birds
In quiet places even follow me
To draughty streets where drink cans rattle
Or hieroglyphs form in films of oil in gutters,
Or spell out words from old discarded papers. Apart from this, although my ideal place is by a woodland stream, I had one of my major revelations in a semi-urban setting in a sort of no-man's land on a farm track where the country and the town merge. |
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