Mabinogion: Translation & Ideas

[Sìle]

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions about the translation of the Mabinogion (and mythologies in general, too).

How do we know that Arawn is King in the Otherworld - i.e. does the translation of his name give us any insight into this?

The reason I am asking is because the book, although translated into English, does not actually translate the names, like many other books. This got me wondering if the names themselves give added understanding and for a unilinguist like myself this could diminish my understanding of the text.

Any thoughts?

[megli]

Cos he says he's King of Annwn (specifically, he says he A king, not THE king, because there's this Hafgan guy as well.) Arawn is a mystery etymologically. I'll go and check out what Ifor Williams has to say on it.

[Sìle]

megli said:

Cos he says he's King of Annwn

So, what you're saying is that Annwn translates into Otherworld?

[Lee]

Hi WW,

Annwn IIRC is taken to mean something like 'un-world' or i have also seen mention of it being the 'underneath world'. dont quote me on that last one.

as for Arawn, i have heard him referred to as 'silver-tongued'. again, i don't know the likelihood on that one so i think it best to wait till Megli gets back to this one.

Something to also bear in mind is that Arawn might also be a title rather then a proper name. with this in mind, Arawn "might" actually be a different figure from the welsh mythos under a different title. As to who he might be... well, that i don't know myself though i have an idea or two.

[megli]

Hi WW,
yes, I think the evidence basically is that W. annwn = otherworld. (There are reasons for this which I can quote if you wish.)

Annw(f)n is an irritating word, because it could (with perfect linguistic accuracy) be three things:

*ande-dumnos --> annwfn 'under-world'

*in-dumnos -->annwfn 'inworld'

*an-dumnos' --> annwfn 'not [this]-world'


All are possible, the first is perhaps the most likely.

[Sìle]

So, its probably best I keep a Welsh dictionary to hand whilst reading. Any recommendations for a dictionary?

[megli]

I'd get sioned davies' translation which (AFAICR) has a glossary translating the names.
I say this rather than 'get this dictionary' because a Mod W dictionary won't be much help with Medieval Welsh names, and may be actively misleading, unless you already speak Welsh.

[Sìle]

megli said:

I'd get sioned davies' translation which (AFAICR) has a glossary translating the names.

I'm reading the Sioned Davies' translation. ;D

[megli]

sorted then! the names may be explained in the notes, i recall something in the intro to that effect.

[Sìle]

megli said:

sorted then! the names may be explained in the notes, i recall something in the intro to that effect.

They are indeed! I was just blind! ;D