Celtic "Land of the Dead"

[redraven]

Have a look at this.......

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2007/12/24/celtic-land-of-the-dead-lies-in-north-wales-55578-20282815/ RR

[littleraven]

Yep, it looks like Steve Blake is raising his profile atm because the 'Keys to Avalon' thing is going to be part of the next series of Lost Treasures. My copies of his books are with the producer.

It's a crock. It's possible to find fault with them in sooo many ways.

[Craig]

littleraven said:

It's a crock. It's possible to find fault with them in sooo many ways.

For those outside of our cosy little North Walian knitting circle here are a few simple reasons that Mr.Blake is selling a pup...

Central to this is St Collen, from whom Llangollen takes its name, who in the sixth century established the church and surrounding area as his parish.

One story has him battling Gwyn ap Nudd on a nearby hill. Glastonbury Abbey have claimed St Collen as its first Abbot, with this and many other stories being transferred there.

This is despite him being almost exclusively mentioned in early Welsh texts, Llangollen being named after him and his actual grave being recorded in the churchyard as late as the 18th century.

Why would someone leave their home parish, travel 200 miles over hostile enemy territory to set up an abbey in a marsh? It doesn’t make sense.”

Has this man studied the early Church in Britain at all? Being offered the Abbey of Glastonbury was a major promotion in those days, and it was not 'hostile enemy territory'. Most of the journey could be made through lands that were friendly or at least indifferent.

As for being in a marsh, such wetlands were common at that time, there having been almost no land draining and reclamation by then. Mr.Blake seems unable to take off his twentieth century perspective.

Research and surveys have high-lighted the greatest concentration of bronze and iron age burial chambers anywhere in the world on Ruabon and Halkyn mountains.

This points to the area being extremely significant with an ancient Welsh work entitled the Stanzas of the Graves giving a clue to whom is actually buried there.

Really... that's a bit of a leap there as in reality we have mapped so few of these sites. The most likely reason that so many remain visible on Halkyn Mountain is that in more arable lands they would have long been ploughed under or built over.

The Stanzas indicate people of nobility from all over the Celtic world were brought here for burial, making it one of their most important and sacred places.

“Indeed, the whole area is bordered by the River Dee, which is still regarded as the most sacred of Celtic rivers, which adds more fuel to the fire,” said Mr Blake.

These Stanzas do not cover the whole of Britain. it's a bit like the Blackpool Tourist Board claiming its tower is the tallest in the world. If there's no other work to contradict it in two thaousand years time people may believe it to be true.

As for the Dee, what about all the other rivers that rise in Wales such as the Wye and the Severn? Each have equal claims in my experience.

It is believed there are in excess of 500 burial chambers on the mountain although modern maps only show those on the edges of the Eglwyseg escarpment.

Believed? He means that he has no reliable evidence.

This is because the vast majority were destroyed during World War II as the area was used for decoy bombing.

What a crock. My wife's family come from this very area and they can remember only three German raids that mistook the decoy lights on Minera & Halkyn Mountains for Birkenhead & Liverpool. Very few bombs actually landed there.

What Mr.Blake thinks are bomb craters are the thousands of test pits driven in by nineteenth century miners looking for coal, lead, copper and tin. If there were hundreds of barrows up there any finds woulf have been recorded and sold to the keen antiquarian the Squire of Erddig. None were.

[Heron]

And anyway, everyone knows the entrance to Annwn is in Glyn Cuch, or rather the smaller tributary of Cwm Dulas at the falls of Ffynone. I've been there - it has the buzz of hummudruz all about it!

Well, alright, there might be other ways in .... (takes tongue out of cheek)

[redraven]

I was hoping for some realistic perspectives from the learned members of this site, typical that it is designed to raise the profile of a certain individual, thank you for your clarification.

RR

[Craig]

There is a gateway to the next stage of our journey for each of us. And each of us will face that gateway alone.

It is not in a lake, or through a wood, or on a particular hillside, or even on a sacred isle. Whatever any particular author or scholar claims.

It is within us, a bright space that is our eternal hope. All we can do is pray we are able to have the time to prepare for it in our own way and ease the pain for those we leave behind.

[bram]

Good words Craig

Having been stationed at Sealand - I always imagined Shotton on a Saturday Night to be the land of the dead!!!

[Craig]

Could be worse Bram. You could have been stationed at Valley...

[littleraven]

Here is the article, as posted by Webwitch:

Dec 24 2007 by Steve Bagnall

A NINETEENTH century map in a North Wales town hall could unravel one of Celtic history’s most enduring mysteries – the location of the legendary Land of the Dead.

The map at Llangollen town hall could potentially rewrite the history of one of the world’s greatest hidden landmarks, a Celtic history expert claims.

According to Welsh mythology the Land of the Dead – or Annwn: Celtic Underworld – was ruled over by Gwynn ap Nudd. He escorted the souls of the dead there, and led a pack of supernatural hounds.

For centuries this place has believed to be pure fable.

But, experts say there is a grain of truth in the story from which it developed, with the evidence now pointing to Ruabon and Halkyn Mountains.

Steve Blake, author of the Keys to Avalon, which argued the myths of King Arthur are firmly rooted in North Wales, said: “Llangollen and the Dee Valley are rich in this piece of Celtic folklore.

“Central to this is St Collen, from whom Llangollen takes its name, who in the sixth century established the church and surrounding area as his parish.

“One story has him battling Gwyn ap Nudd on a nearby hill. Glastonbury Abbey have claimed St Collen as its first Abbot, with this and many other stories being transferred there.

“This is despite him being almost exclusively mentioned in early Welsh texts, Llangollen being named after him and his actual grave being recorded in the churchyard as late as the 18th century.

“Why would someone leave their home parish, travel 200 miles over hostile enemy territory to set up an abbey in a marsh? It doesn’t make sense.”

But archaeology and a late 19th century Ordinance Survey map on the wall of Llangollen town hall could help substantiate the North Wales claim to some legends held dear by Glastonbury.

Research and surveys have high-lighted the greatest concentration of bronze and iron age burial chambers anywhere in the world on Ruabon and Halkyn mountains.

This points to the area being extremely significant with an ancient Welsh work entitled the Stanzas of the Graves giving a clue to whom is actually buried there.

“The Stanzas indicate people of nobility from all over the Celtic world were brought here for burial, making it one of their most important and sacred places.

“Indeed, the whole area is bordered by the River Dee, which is still regarded as the most sacred of Celtic rivers, which adds more fuel to the fire,” said Mr Blake.

It is believed there are in excess of 500 burial chambers on the mountain although modern maps only show those on the edges of the Eglwyseg escarpment.

This is because the vast majority were destroyed during World War II as the area was used for decoy bombing.”

Source: The Daily Post.

[Deleted]

If Mr Blake is soo wide of the mark shouldn't he be confronted regarding these anomalies and kindly asked to explain himself?

[Craig]

Hi Fledglet

There are so many odd little books on the Mind, Body & Spirit shelves these days which one would you start with? Every day comes another author with another claim to exclusive knowledge or pet theory.

I think the key to understanding the worth of these is this:
- Do they come up with a theory and then select only the evidence that fits it (occasionally rubbishing anything that might threaten it), or
- Do they survey the available evidence and then try to tie it all together into a partial or whole theory?

[littleraven]

fledgling said:

If Mr Blake is soo wide of the mark shouldn't he be confronted regarding these anomalies and kindly asked to explain himself?

They have been.

I'm told that one of the two who wrote the book they have somewhat 'sperated', and one of them will apparently no longer even admit to it - I assume this is Mr. Lloyd. Someone else I know who used to sing their praises very highly will no longer admit to knowing them.

Say's it all really.