Tegernacus

[Tegernacus]

No, not a post about me (its not my real name, you know, that's Alun)

anyhow, I digress

On the mountain above my house is a (probably 6th century) stone dedicated to Tegernacus. (Well, a place marker, the original stone is now in the National Museum).

I've posted info on this from the Archaeologia Cambrensis on my new blog (plug plug) and was wondering if you had any thoughts on this?

Certainly, Teyrnon is called the lord of Gwent-is-coed in the story if Rhiannon, so it's the right area. And, if popular conception is to be believed, the name is derived from Tigernonos, and if Tigernonos is anyway connected to Tigernacus, then... it would seem that old Teyrnon isn't the god of neo-celtic belief, but some geezer who's buried above my house. Erm... or is it all coincidence and Victorian fancy?

I would love some input, as it growing up around this stone that set me down this road in the first place.

[Lee]

hi bud,

Tigernonos is translated as Great Lord and is i think regarded as a title of a deity - associated with his obvius consort Great Queen - or Rigatona.

it might well be this is derivation of that name that was also used by a chieftain.

i see you linked to my siteon that blog very kind fo you. will add you tommy blog links too.

/mutual back slapping

[Tegernacus]

no problem

Obviously, when I said "some geezer" he was more than that, and I have been honouring the place and the person buried there for years. The two names just seemed too close to be co-incidental, even if they aren't connected, other than old Gwent Tegernacus being given the name of a possibly older chieftain/deity.

Incidently, the site is very close to Boch Rhiw Carn, where Arthur, Cai and Bedwyr saved Gwynllyw and Gwladus from the pissed-off Brychan. Also where Gwladus spent her last years (presumably on the land of her nephew Tegernacus). However, in the history of St Cadoc, there is no mention of his cousin, which strikes me as strange. Anyhow, thats another post.

[Tegernacus]

hmmm, apparently the non-Latin form of Tegernacus is Teyrnoc, not Teyrnon. Still... makes a good story

[Tegernacus]

just babbling now:

"...This twofold value of Roman e explains to some extent the hesitation which the early Welsh display in the spelling of such names as Catotogirni, Tegernomali, Tegernacus, from the word tigern-, now teyrn, "a lord or monarch", all coming from tig-, now ty, "a house".
(The Development Of Celtic Linguistics 1850-1900 Davis etc)

So you're right, it's a title name. Quite generic when you break it down like that.

[megli]

Yes Tigernos was the word in British for a lord, related to *tegon/tigon, 'house', exactly in the way that Latin Dominus, 'lord' comes from 'domus' 'house'. ('One who rules over a household')

With the divine suffix -onos you get Tigernonos, 'Divine Lord' which is the form that lies behind Teyrnon in the Mabinogi.

Tegernacus (the vacillating e/i is normal for the period) is the 'lord' word plus an adjectival suffix -akos, lightly Latinised here. This suffix is wildly common and gives all those Welsh names in Middle Welsh -awc, Modern Welsh -og, Breton -oc.

So your name, Alun, means 'Lordly one', or, using the 'dominus' parallel again, 'Dominic'.

[megli]

A lot of Celtic names were titles: Vercingetorix, 'Over-stepping King'; Maglocunos, 'Princely Hound', Boudica, 'Victory' etc

Indeed a lot of English names are ultimately titles, 'Dominic' being a case in point. At least we're not like the Romans with their fondness for calling children Quintus, Sextus and Septimus, 'Fifth, Sixth, Seventh'...

[megli]

I lay in bed last night, having looked in at OBOD, and wondering if ancient British druids gave themselves names like:

Steradraco, 'Star Dragon'

Nemosamina, 'Summer Sky'

Alarkosamos, 'Summer Swan'

Morimoccanos, 'Little Dolphin'

And best of all -

Glanobrixtiia, 'Crystal Enchantress'

[Tegernacus]

I thought names were given or earned, so they would have been called "good memory" or "he with oak-leaves in his beard" or something. Glanbrixtiaa indeed...

So his name would have been, in the Brittonic, Tigernakos? Brilliant.(and no, I didn't know the meaning before I used it here. I'm not a megalomaniac. much... )

Doing some research, the form Tigernacus turns up quite a lot. There is a stone in Carmarthen that bears that name, and there is Tigernach, Bishop of Clogher in Ireland, godson of St. Bridgit in around 506. Latin inscription reads "Venerabilis Praesul Tigernacus regali ex progencic natus, nepos Echachi regis" etc. Obviously a common-ish nameform at the time.

Must do more digging. While this isn't Brythonic in the pagan sense (his family was pagan, converted later by his cousin, St Cadoc) it is a link to the native people who walked the same mountain I do, who watched the same sunset, who paddled in the same river. I love that link.

[megli]

Tigernach is indeed the Old Irish form of the same name. Yep, Tigernakos in Brythonic (and indeed in primitive Irish)


Tigernakos ---> Irish Tigernach, Middle Welsh Teyrnawc, ModW Teyrnog. (Irish aspirated a -k- between vowels to -ch, then lost final syllables. Welsh lost -g- between vowels, though it lingers as a ghost-letter -y- here. Final -akos underwent vowel-diphthongisation and loss of the final syllable, > -awc. The -c- was shifted to -g, and then in middle welsh the diphthong -aw- was reduced to a single vowel again, but not the original one, > -og. Thus you get two very different looking names from the same original word in a little under 200 years.)


'oak leaves in his beard' ....hmm. It sounds like summat Tolkien would call an Ent!

I wish I could come up with 'Faerie Dancer' in British! I might suggest it to someone I dislike if I can....

[littleraven]

Mark, sooner or later I'm going to go through all the posts you've made on here and compile them.

It would be a bloody goldmine.

[littleraven]

megli said:

I lay in bed last night, having looked in at OBOD, and wondering if ancient British druids gave themselves names like:

Steradraco, 'Star Dragon'

Nemosamina, 'Summer Sky'

Alarkosamos, 'Summer Swan'

Morimoccanos, 'Little Dolphin'

And best of all -

Glanobrixtiia, 'Crystal Enchantress'

Isn't that the speaker list for the next Druid Camp?

[Lee]

mark:

Morimoccanos, 'Little Dolphin'

does this mean that dolphin is similar in root to Pig? sea pig perhaps?

[megli]

exactly!

[megli]

littleraven said:

Isn't that the speaker list for the next Druid Camp?

lol...quite

[Lee]

so sea pig for dolphin, earth pig for badger.

crikey - i see an open ritual callng the four pigs ate the four directions.

(bacon sarnie for fire of course and a seagull for air)

[Tegernacus]

many of the world’s languages use a phrase that means ‘sea pig’ to describe dolphins - for example, ‘iruka’ in Japanese, and ‘hai tun’ in Chinese. The English word ‘porpoise’ also comes from Germanic roots meaning ‘sea pig’ or ‘pig fish’. The Anglo-Saxon Dolphin comes from the French term which comes from the mediaeval Latin term which comes from the Roman Latin term which they nicked from the Greeks. (breathes)

apparently...

although the Chinese have metal, water, wood, fire, and earth Pigs too. 2007 was the year of the Fire Pig.

(sorry, going off-topic slightly.)