Rochdale's Stonehenge?

[Sìle]

9/ 4/2008

ARCHAEOLOGISTS have unearthed a "mini-Stonehenge"... on the moors of Rochdale.

The two nearby sites - an oval made up of collapsed slabs, and a 30-metre circle of rounded stones - are believed to be ancient burial sites dating back as far as 5,000 years.

They were spotted by archaeologist Stuart Mendelsohn during a walk on the hills in December and could now become a major tourist attraction.

"I suppose you could describe it as Rochdale's version of Stonehenge," said Mr Mendelson, 52, who is based in Sweden but originally from Middleton. "It would have been a sacred site and what we've found so far I feel will be the tip of the iceberg.

"It was very unexpected and I didn't believe it at first. I just can't believe that it's been missed by everyone.

"The stones are not arranged randomly and it's quite clear to see.

"For our area and beyond, it's very significant. We've found two burial mounds. The stones may represent particular lunar events in the calendar. I think it would have been a focal point for the whole community."

Archeaological expert

The two sites have been visited by Peter Iles, a leading archaeological expert from Lancashire County Council. They have also been inspected by English Heritage and entered on the official Greater Manchester archaeology database.

English Heritage described both as "fairly well preserved" and claim both are "possible of Bronze age date" - meaning they could date back to 3,000 BC.

Unlike the famous monument at Stonehenge, however, they are believed to be made of local materials.

The first site, made up of fallen stones, is 10.2m in overall diameter.. The second, which includes the circle, is on the western slope and - according to an English Heritage report - "seems to have been sited to be visible from some distance to the west, rather than the valley floor".

The report adds that both finds "probably represent Bronze Age burial monuments."

Around 20 stones have been uncovered it total - the largest being 1.5m tall - and the entire site covers an acre.

Prehistoric flints

"It's great news for Rochdale," said Mr Mendelsohn. "Prehistoric flints have been found in Littleborough, but as far as I'm aware, this is the first significant discovery in the town.

"I don't know why that site was chosen originally but it has fantastic views of Rochdale and was fairly close to where people lived.

"It's a great site and we really need to get it protected and preserved."

Norman Redhead, the Greater Manchester county archaeologist, said he planned to visit the site in the next few weeks.

The construction of Stonehenge, one of the most famous pre-historic sites in the world, is believed to have been carried out in three stages, with the earliest starting in 3,100 BC - around 500 years before the Great Pyramid of Giza.

Historians are still puzzled as to exactly why Stonehenge was built and how its creators managed to transport rock from the Preseli mountains to a site in Wiltshire more than 200 miles away.

The site currently attracts an estimated one million visitors from around the world, every year.

Source: Manchester Evening News.

[Blackbird]

Fantastic

I expect the land was once littered with stone circles - it's just that most of them have been destroyed for agriculture or the stones nicked for building... Derbyshire is still covered with them, even though many were ploughed up, notably while Digging For Britain.

[littleraven]

There was also an active effort to remove them during the 17th century, at the hands of the Puritans. I was told it was this period that was largely responsible for the stones truning up in walls etc.

[Blackbird]

That makes sense. What really surprises me is that any survived at all! If we only have a tiny amount of the original megalithic sites remaining, I wonder how many more there once were?

[jez]

Well, since you could barely move in Derbyshire for stone circles and cairns even just before the second world war, I would think that every place in the country which had a settlement had a circle and at least one cairn site for burials.

It's just that we carried on living in most of the places we still live in (if that makes sense) and so all the traces in those places have been destroyed by later types of settlement.

--

Jez

[arth_frown]

I loved to know why build so many?

[redraven]

Apr 13, 2008 13:08:34 GMT -1 arth_frown said:

I loved to know why build so many?

I presume you are talking about Derbyshire, Arth. Well, I think Derbys has more evidential Brythonic structures than almost anywhere else, certainly in England, if not the UK itself. Whereas the Welsh have the written tales, Derbys was well known for being not the most inviting of places to stay. I seem to recall someone claiming that the Roman's would not stay in the county if at all possible, therefore, it's influence was minimal compared to other areas, thus the population would hold true to earlier forms of religions/ practices for longer than the majority of the rest of the country. Also, the isolation of the dales, especially in winter, meant that the older practices were sustained for longer, one case being Arbor Low, if you ever visit, you will see how much it is off the beaten track, so to speak, and also the energy associated with this site, a lot of it claimed to be dark.

RR

[Tegernacus]

"The county of Derby appears to have been of considerable importance, and to have contained a body of numerous and active inhabitants in an early stage of British civilization; and the Romans, who carried on a very profitable trade with the produce of its mines, fixed stations, and formed roads in every part of it. The Britons had certainly one of their principal roads, the Rykneld, running through its whole extent, from south-west to north east, from the borders of Staffordshire to those of Yorkshire. The name is British, the R, according to Whitaker, being prefixed to distinguish it as the road of the Upper Iceni, while the Ikeneld way itself led towards Norfolk, the country of the Iceni, properly so called.

" The Caers or Carls work, near Hathersage, bears marks of British origin; it lies in the wildest part of the High-Peak, near the present road from Manchester to Sheffield, and includes the summit of a hill, which is very steep on all sides but one, and defended on that by a wall of rude and singular construction, consisting of three rows of very large stones, with other stones placed obliquely upon them, pointing towards the assailants. The whole wall is above nine feet high, and supported within by a slanting bank of earth, twenty-five feet in length. See the Plan, Archaeologia, vol. vii. p. 175. The tombs and other remains of this early people have been found in every part of the Peak, and are evidently British, by the rude urns, flint weapons, beads, and small mill-stones discovered in them, as well as by the absence of all such remains as mark a more polished æra of civilization.

"That the Romans, as soon as they were established in the island, paid considerable attention to this part of it, might be proved, (even if there did not exist so many traces of their roads and towns,) by the pigs of lead ready worked up for sale, and stamped with the name of the reigning emperor; no less than three of which have been found in the neighbourhood of Matlock, and one of them inscribed, " Socio Romœ," (to ray partner at Rome,) which clearly marks it to have been an article of trade. Two of them are now in the British Museum, and the very inspection of these is sufficient to prove, they were thus prepared for articles of commerce; and not, as Camden and others have supposed, as trophies of victory over the Ceangi or other tribes. Mr. Pegge has conjectured, that one of these pigs bears so early a date as the time of the Emperor Claudius; and if this was the fact, it would go far to prove, that the mines in the Peak, were worked by the natives before the time of the Roman invasion; as it is highly improbable, that in a short lime after the landing of the Romans, they should have so far subdued the Coritani, in the central part of the island, as to have established their own works and workmen in this remote district; or if, as other antiquaries have contended, this lead formed part of the tribute paid by the islanders themselves, (though not yet finally subdued,) to the Roman Emperor, it would carry up the British trade in these metals to a very remote period.

source and indepth article

[redraven]

Thanks for this Teg, will study this later. I have remembered where the statement about non roman settlement was made, it was in a book about Well dressings by Roy Christian from 1996. If you ask some of the older generation who have an interest in this sort of thing, you will find that there is a strong feeling that there was not large scale Roman occupation in Derbys, some are quite insulted at such a suggestion so I am inclined to respect their belief's and try to look at it from this perspective as well, wouldn't be the first time there had been a misinterpretation would it?
RR

[Tegernacus]

there wasn't much Roman occupation, BUT there are a huge amount of Roman roads criss-crossing the place, where the Romans were using local labour to work the mines (apparently).

[redraven]

For a more modern assessment, you may wish to view this....

www.le.ac.uk/ar/research/projects/eastmidsfw/pdfs/21derrom.pdf


the previous link is from 1817 and large parts have been shown to be geological features and not Roman.
It would appear that there was a major colonisation of upland Derbyshire from the second century onwards, with speculation that this was due to the Romans moving north and I note with interest that it is commented about the almost complete lack of evidence of Anglo Saxon inhabitation.
For information about the period before this, you may wish to view this...
www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/research/projects/eastmidsfw/pdfs/16der1stmill.pdf

Of course this is of relevance to this thread because upland Derbyshire is part of the same geological area as the Rochdale find. After reading this, I have been pleased to read about the unearthing of a late Bronze age site, mentioned in this paper, less than 2 miles from where I live!

RR

[Tegernacus]

brilliant, thanks for that RR