W Y Evans Wentz

[redraven]

Has anyone here read the book The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries by the above author, written about 1911, only I have just stumbled across it and it is fascinating and was wondering if anyone has any info/opinions.

RR

[Sìle]

Its on my "to be read" list, so I can't offer an opinion at the moment. Sorry.

[megli]

Never read it. Probably should have done....

[Lee]

its on sacred-texts.com

have browsed while in work - i have been paid to look at fairies. by Rupert Murdoch

[redraven]

I'm reading the version on this website
www.worldspirituality.org/fairy-faith.html

Apparently he was an American who, in 1908 undertook a study about this subject. He did not, however, study his subject through books but actually lived with the peoples of Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Brittany and Cornwall, collating and recording the stories from the ordinary people who had either seen or knew of family history of the subject.
He lived with these people for 3 years, developing his theories as his understanding of the lands and the peoples evolved. I would say he had a feral approach and reading his work, it is, to my eyes, to be decades ahead of the thinking prevalent then.
I am thoroughly enjoying it.
RR

[Heron]

I read this too long ago to still claim to be familiar with it, but I do have a record of a comment I made about it in a magazine called 'The Heathen' way back in the 1970's(!) Here's a bit I quoted:

"The Morgan is a fairy eternally young, a virgin seductress whose passion, never satisfied, drives her to despair. Her place of abode is beneath the sea; there she possesses marvellous palaces where gold and diamonds glimmer. Accompanied by other fairies, of whom she is in some respect the queen, she rises to the surface of the waters in the splendour of her unveiled beauty. By day she slumbers amid the coolness of the grottoes, and woe to him who troubles her sleep. By night she lets herself be lulled by the waves in the neighbourhood of the rocks. The sea-foam crystallizes at her touch into precious stones, of whiteness as dazzling as that ofher body. By moonlight she moans as she combs her fair hair with a comb of fine gold, and she sings in a harmonious voice a plaintive melody whose charm is irresistible. The sailor who listens to it feels himself drawn towards her, without power to break the charm which drags him onward to his destruction; the bark is broken upon the reefs; the man is in the sea, and the Morgan utters a cry of joy.

But the arms of the fairy clasp only a corpse; for at her touch men die, and it is this which causes the despair of the amorous and inviolate Morgan. She being pagan,it suffices to have been touched by her in order to suffer the saddest fate which canbe reserved to a christian. The unfortunate one whom she has clasped is condemned to wander forever in the trough of the waters, his eyes wide open, the mark of baptism effaced from his forehead. Never will his poor remains know the sweetness of reposing in holy ground, never will he have a tomb where his kindred might come and pray and weep."

(The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries - pp. 200-201)

I was, at the time, indignant at how this sea nymph had been turned into a monster by the application of christian values. But then I was young and had a roving eye for mermaids. Still, even now, it does seem to me to be tainted with such an approach. I'm not sure if I want to go back and read the whole work to see whether I still think this is a fair assessment. But I'd be interested to hear the opinions of those of you who are currently reading it.

[redraven]

I've now read about 7 of the 36 chapters and think I have a feel to the book. The first thing to remember is the era the book was written : 1910 to 1915. To read it by today's theories is to do it a disservice, the fact that the book got published at all is a surprise as the conclusions drawn would be a direct rebuttal of the church's messages at that time. I think the fact that the author was an American made publishing easier, because I think if the author had been English, then it would have made publishing too risky at that time and the book would not have seen the light of day for decades.
I have read Heron's comments and feel he has, to a degree, missed this important point about the context in which to read the book. The author makes it clear in the introduction, that he has written the stories as told to him by the "Celts" living at that time. If there is a taint of Christian values to the stories, then I feel that this merely reflects the times and attitudes of the people of that time and you have to appreciate that even the act of telling the story could have led to social and economic consequences. Could your indignation be a case of youthful indignation Heron?
The stories were told to him because he was an American, and not English and the author himself acknowledges the fact that it was made clear to him that if he was English, he would not have been entertained.
It is a very interesting piece and you can see some early ideas that gained scientific credibility at a much later time. I have, as yet, to read the specific stories, instead choosing to concentrate upon the more general chapters were he tries to draw his conclusions together with reasoning and "current" scientific thinking.
I intend to read the stories, but will need much time to fully appreciate the meanings and feel that it is a very important work which speaks to us through the words and actions of our forefathers and goes into the mindsets of the time. Some may consider this to be recent history and therefore not worthy of a source of Brythonic study, but, I, for one would strongly disagree as some of the sources of the stories are repeating stories that were only told in their own families for generations, so it "ticks some of the boxes" as far as I am concerned.
RR

[Francis]

I read this book a while ago and after initially falling out with him over his description of Wales as being somehow less celtic or more anglicised/idustrial or something? (can't really remember what he said but certainly something about the feel of the land being less celtic in mood) found it a very interesting resource.

redraven said:

Some may consider this to be recent history and therefore not worthy of a source of Brythonic study, but, I, for one would strongly disagree as some of the sources of the stories are repeating stories that were only told in their own families for generations, so it "ticks some of the boxes" as far as I am concerned.
RR

To be honest RR whilst I take your point and agree that many of the stories are much older than the collection date - although many, as you will read later, are 'eye witness' or at least contemporary reportings, from within the life times of the people relating the stories - I certainly don't judge the value of the stories with their age upper most.

I think they're useful to us for what they tell us of a conection with the 'less ordinary' inspired by these lands. Of a belief, or system of belief, at least at one time sufficently resonant with the atmosphere of the Atlantic Seaboard so as to be accepted by a great many living here. I think for this to be the case these tales would have had to have been at least in sympathy with their own experiences of living in these misty lands.

I wonder if the collection date of these stories might pretty much have been the very last time this "fairy faith" could have been investigated before outside influences, rather than just the home hearth, became important to people's way of seeing things?

[redraven]

francis said:

I read this book a while ago and after initially falling out with him over his description of Wales as being somehow less celtic or more anglicised/idustrial or something? (can't really remember what he said but certainly something about the feel of the land being less celtic in mood) found it a very interesting resource.

Interestingly, I read the section on Wales last night and the part you refer to was South Wales, the author saying that it had a larger English population than the rest of Wales, therefore altering the feel to the area.

I agree that this probably was the last chance for stories to be collected before the advance of the 20th century and the shift of this civilization, it is precisely that point as to why I am probably enjoying it so much as it conveys to me the simpler attitudes compared to today's widespread cynicism.

RR

[littleraven]

Remember that today large parts of South Wales are indeed referred to as 'Little England'.

I have only ever dipped into the book when I wanted to know something specific so can't comment on it in it's entirety. I think it is immensely valuable though, in that in essnetially pre-industrial areas much of the lore was a way of living, and not a quaint aspect of times past.

[Heron]

redraven said:

I have read Heron's comments and feel he has, to a degree, missed this important point about the context in which to read the book. The author makes it clear in the introduction, that he has written the stories as told to him by the "Celts" living at that time. If there is a taint of Christian values to the stories, then I feel that this merely reflects the times and attitudes of the people of that time and you have to appreciate that even the act of telling the story could have led to social and economic consequences. Could your indignation be a case of youthful indignation Heron?

Yes I think so. Certainly these people would have seen their 'fairy faith' through christian lenses and therefore Evans-Wentz could just be seen as representing their actual views. So I would certainly look at the book differently now. But if we want to see through those lenses too in order to appreciate exactly how the people he lived with thought, that is one thing, if we want to get behind this to the origins of such a 'fairy faith' then we might want to filter out the christian overlay. This, I appreciate, is difficult terrain and the significance of folklore or ritual observances for one generation might be all we can be half-way certain of, as tracing 'origins' involves us in going back through any number of intermediate periods of interpretation to a proposed, but perhaps never discoverable allegedly 'pure' origin. And that we can never do. But if reconstructionism is what we are about, and we want to create a credible version of Brythonic paganism based on something more than our own invention, then we have to try.