Arthuriad of Catumandus

[littleraven]

www.arthuriadofcatumandus.com/index.php

Anyone heard of this before?

I remember seeing a copy of this in a bookshop in Bangor some years ago but ignored it as it was presented as fiction. But now it's claiming it's actually based ona a historical document:

"But in recent years scholarly opinion has shifted and now the reliability of the Arthuriad as a valuable source of information on the heroic warrior the world has long known as Arthur is widely accepted."

If so this is hellishly important. If so, why haven't we heard of it?

[megli]

This screams 'con'!! Or rather clever literary historical novel.

If such a thing existed I guarantee it would have been the cause of the biggest round of conference going in arthurian studies, celtic and medieval studies for decades.

It hasn't. And the reason is - it's a literary novel by a clever amateur historian - bet you anything you like!

[arth_frown]

Hey if stick Arthur on the front it's bound to sell a few copies.

[Heron]

megli said:

...

- it's a literary novel by a clever amateur historian - bet you anything you like!

Yes, but very cleverly done with the web site and all. The Da Vinci Code has a lot to answer for in showing others how the merest dash of plausibility can be transposed into credibility.

One thing, though, from the 'Historical Speculations' on the site is this plausible contention:

how was it that the pre Roman pantheon of Celtic gods was transmitted to emerge in Christian guise in later ages? The answer must be that whereas the élite might affect Roman garb, most people in the British states did not. Archaeology can be misleading. The memorials, the limited writings of the time may be in Latin but this does not imply the language’s universality. If people were to dig up Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea two thousand years hence the public monuments and the graves would tell them that they had come across an English speaking Christian society. Yet among ordinary Papua New Guineans ancient beliefs persist and mean more to ordinary people than a western faith. Nor do most of them speak English. So with the ancient culture of Celic Britain: Paganism in its Mediterranean form had been obliterated by Imperial decree and the acquiescence of the Romanised élite, but the Celtic Paganism of the ordinary people lived on. This is a fundamental ingredient in our picture of the age.

Arthur aside, this view does potentially explain the inconsistencies between the archaeological record and recent genetic research. But of course it could equally apply to the 'Celts' and whether 'La Tene' invasions displaced, replaced or simply dominated existing peoples. Surviving literature and earlier archaeological artifacts present to us a warrior culture in which heroes gallop,around attempting to gain fame for themselves. There must have been large numbers of people living ordinary lives who had nothing to do with this. Unfortunately they are invisible to us.

[megli]

Yes quite - but latin culture must have penetrated quite far. Otherwise how else do you explain the loss of native words for perfectly ordinary things - arm, leg, bridge, fish? (all, as you know, from Latin in Welsh). There would be huge pressure on anyone who wanted to take part in political life - basically to rise socially at all - to take up Latin culture. It looks in fact as if British was on the way out in the lowland zone in the late romano-british period and a very substnantial part of the population had started speaking latin as their native tongue. Thank god the romans went.

[Tegernacus]

Roman culture was the way to go if you were an Iron-Age yuppie. Roundhouse or Villa? Hmmmm gimme that there central heating! To be fair to our Roman friends, I don't think they demanded the removal of British ways or conversation to some kind of Roman way of life - it was there if you wanted it. Especially in a religious context. (Massacre of druids aside, which was a political move).

I disagree that British was on it's way out though. Even when the Romans brought Christianity, the people of this island had a very... British... way of doing it, and a way that wasn't particularly popular in Rome either. And when the Romans finally left, we buggered off back to our hillforts, only a few people carried on living in villas. Bloody barbarians...

"Paganism in its Mediterranean form had been obliterated by Imperial decree and the acquiescence of the Romanised élite, but the Celtic Paganism of the ordinary people lived on."

Thats a generalisation. Even the last few Roman villas in this country, after we were "officially" Christian, had temple springs. You can take Rome out of the pagan, but you can't take the pagan out of Rome... or something.

[megli]

I mean specifically British the language, within the lowland zone in late Roman Britain.

[Craig]

Hey a roundhouse has central heating! The fire is in the middle right?

[Tegernacus]

yeah, but it's draughty by the door