Arbor Low - Notes

[redraven]

OK, this is what I think the things I have experienced may mean, feel free the contradict me if you think I am talking rubbish, I am not claiming to be correct in my assumptions and hope to be open to different interpretations if others think they may have better explanation.
Firstly, the picture of night ceremonies, I "saw" a procession of lights entering the the circle, I assumed them to be lighted torches but that is not certain at this time.
Next, the word conflict, this was probably one of the most clear parts in all my attempts to concentrate on the subject.
The sensation of "dark" energy, the best way to describe this would be to say that if you imagined yourself to be sat on a beach in bright sunshine, you would feel the "light" being produced and the subsequent feeling of "euphoria" or positivity, the feeling I had was of a dark and negative energy, though I did not feel threatened by this, merely that it was a part of Abor Low.
The picture of a black stag was a complete surprise to me and at this time, I have no explanation for it.
Picture of the moon, when you enter Arbor low, you enter from a south easterly direction, unlike Stonehenge that is aligned east to west and I think that this indicates that Arbor Low was designed for a different purpose to Stonehenge. If you were to enter at night, I have visions of the moon being the dominant feature above the raised earth banks surrounding the circle, but this maybe just the product of my overactive imagination!
The word "older" heard. I think at this time that it may refer to the actual dating of Arbor low being wrong, but that is only my initial thought.
The picture of a raised viewing platform, that would be the highest section of the earth bank that is facing you when you enter the circle and it would not require a great leap of imagination to see tribal elders being seated there.
The picture of "Norse" people toppling the stones. The latest info I have seen in this report:
www.le.ac.uk/ar/research/projects/eastmidsfw/pdfs/21derrom.pdf
page 12, remarks about the lack of Anglo-Saxon inhabitation in Derbys, so this would seem to suggest, at this time that that particular "vision" may not be correct, but who knows what will turn up in the future!
As I have stated, this is my first attempt, probably quite weak in content but I feel that if more people gain confidence to share with us their experiences, without undue derision, then there could even be some common experiences shared by all of us.
And of course, it gives us the excuse to go out to these places and experience them for ourselves!

RR

[Heron]

May 21, 2008 20:17:29 GMT -1 redraven said:

OK, this is what I think the things I have experienced may mean, feel free the contradict me if you think I am talking rubbish, I am not claiming to be correct in my assumptions and hope to be open to different interpretations if others think they may have better explanation.


RR

Hi RR

My memories of my one visit to Arbor Low are of an exposed place wide open to the elements and certainly with a 'dark' undertone to it. But I wouldn't presume to judge any place on the basis of a single visit (seem to remember visiting the Nine Maidens [which was certainly a contrast] on the same day so it was definitely ancient site tourism). I wouldn't presume to judge your experiences either , particularly if that is a place you have a close relationship with. Thanks for sharing your insights with us.

[Blackbird]

I find the opposite - I don't like the Nine Ladies and have never felt welcome to enter the circle there.

The darkness could be linked to Gib Hill? Also, those in the barrows of Gib Hill are certainly raised - one over the other, as is the collapsing barrow at the top end of Arbor Low itself (the bit you suggest as a viewing platform - I have a feeling that living people wouldn't have been sitting there looking over, but the person inside probably was...) With the amount of early burials there and the gib, it's certainly a place associated with the dead.

An important question might be 'when' - as Arbor Low is quite heavily used these days, and certainly at night. Some of the things Jez and I have seen up there have been odd and disrespectful to the site - ritual litter of cut flowers, stones taken from the barrow to spell out words and patterns on the ground. Once we arrived to find that someone had burned patterns into the grass of the banks with salt, which was pretty shocking and was disturbing the walkers up there. So it's possible that you might be picking up on more recent site activity? (Just a suggestion, but worth bearing in mind?)

As Greg said, thanks for writing this - it's a great project for Brython

[redraven]

Thanks for the replies both of you, it is much appreciated!

Litter... Yes, when I was up there, there was discarded vegetation, in the form of bouquets etc. A bit strange really, it may be me, but I would never think to leave something like that as to me, it appears to my eyes to be dishonourable. Go, experience and leave the place as you would wish to find it, like a canoe sailing through a river, leave nothing except ripples.

Now for the strange bit............

Upon entering the circle through the main south easterly entrance, upon the grass, in a blowing gale, as it tends to be doing for 90% of the time, unmoving, was a single solitary Raven feather!!

RR

[redraven]

It has been an interesting time since writing the original post. I have found it very hard to concentrate for long and, TBH, I have only just started getting back some form of cognitive thoughts back. I have reread my original thread and, oh dear........

May 21, 2008 20:17:29 GMT -1 redraven said:

When you enter Arbor Low you enter from a South Easterly direction. I think that this indicates that Arbor Low was designed for a different purpose to Stonehenge.

Of course, a south easterly entrance means that you see the setting sun on the midwinter solstace and the other north westerly entrance means you see the sunrise. I was obviously tired and emotional when writing the post, thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it ;D.
I should also have given a link so people have some idea about the subject....
www.cressbrook.co.uk/visits/arborlow.php
The main entrance into the circle is the SE entrance and thinking about this suggests to my limited intelligence that people possibly entered here first, bearing in mind that sunset is between 3.30 and 4 PM local time and some possibly stayed until sunrise next day which would have been seen through the NW entrance, leaving to make the short trek to Gib hill to finish the ceremony by visiting the ancestors buried there.
This explanation could also give some explanation about the dark aspect of Arbor Low I experienced, as I mentioned, I didn't see the dark aspect as necessarily negative in meaning, dark being the night.
It has been an interesting experience and one I intend to do again, whether I post on here again though, depends on whether people think that this has been a worthwhile thing or merely a self obsessed blog!
Over to you......

RR

[Blackbird]

I think it's worthwhile, definitely. (And I hadn't noticed the direction mistake... but then my lack of any sense of direction is legendary...)

I've spent a few Midwinter sunsets up there, and one very noticable feature is the way the barrows on all the surrounding hills are illuminated by the sunset. It's certainly a place where the houses of the dead are emphasised. Don't forget there is also a barrow within the main Arbor Low site too...

[Adam]

RR I hope this is in keeping with your intention for this experiement... I have one direct experience of Arbor Low and it was an odd one... I'm a lover of all things stone circlish and tend to drag my poor family around on holidays... so this was an experience that shocked me... I posted it in another blog and reproduce it here.

Arbor Low is a stone circle near Buxton, Derbyshire... I've known of it since childhood (Buxton was an old holiday stomping ground... we had very little money and some good family friends who were Quakers who gave their house over to my mum and the four of us kids when they went on holiday)... Some of you may know that I have a slight obsession with visiting ancient stone circle sites whenever I get the opportunity, so last August when tribe Sargant had a shared holiday with another family we are close to, in Buxton, I thought this a great opportunity.

On the last day of the holiday, we structured our journey home so that we went past the Low. It's on private land, but the farmer allows access in return for a donation given for access. We spotted the Low from the main road and turned off, driving up a country lane until we got to the turn to the farm. We drove a short way up the track and parked up, and thats when it all went a bit weird.

Emily (our daughter) started to complain about feeling cold and complaining about her jacket (she says after that she wasn't cold and she doesn't know why she said that). I sensed a change in mood in my wife, Sian, and challenged her as to whether she didn't really want to do this... in my opinion at the time she didn't answer quickly enough and I started to harbour an irrational resentment, but we seemed to sort ot out.

So we walked up to the tin on the wall where you make payment and dropped a couple quid in and continued up a field to the gate to Arbor Low, and there it all blew. I challenged Sian again, Emily complained of feeling cold and Sian started on about how if it was going to be like this I could go on by myself... I blew up and started shouting, Emily burst into tears and Sian took her and walked off (LET me say here that I was being TOTALLY irrational and aggressive... this is not generally like me). We left with me and Sian arguing, Emily crying and begging us to stop... the further we got away, the easier it became to gain control and within a short time we had all calmed down and made up.

On instinct, I did a little research and discovered that local legend claims that the Low is haunted by a spirit, a "boggart", that makes trouble for people who upset it... I don't know. We did travel down a few weeks later and approach the Low to see what would happened and we all felt a real chill growing as we approached, a sense of oppression, though that could be psychological anchors related to the previous visit... but the behaviour of all of us back then had become SO out of character. I don't know... but I will be going back, alone, and somewhat more psychologically and psychically prepared

[redraven]

Yours is not an unusual experience, Adam, there are tales of individuals who thought it was a good idea to camp out there. Most don't get past midnight!
Arbor Low definately has it's own energy and guardians, and they do not welcome everyone. I did not feel any negativity there and haven't for each time I have visited, so maybe I am acceptable to them. (He says trying to avoid any ego massaging here.)
My intent with this thread and subsequent threads was to show that if an ordinary bloke like me can experience these things with no special "attributes" or claim to special treatment from the Gods/spirits, then, with a little application, we can all experience and share, in the hope of external verification through shared experiences or confirmation through the latest scientific research and thus create a base from which to develop our spirituality/religion. Thus, we have the foundations built upon experience that can be verified externally and this gives us the tools to evolve and puts us in a strong position to be able to defend ourselves when the inevitable questioning from other religions start.

RR

[Blackbird]

I've found there are some places in which I definitely have not felt welcome - the nearby Nine Ladies being one of them.

It may be an ancestral thing, or it may simply be that the spirits of the place are in a narky mood. There are certainly plenty of spirits up there - those of the big barrow at the far side of Arbor Low and the two barrows of Gib Hill for a start.

I would go back with an offering, such as a bottle of mead or ale... see if that helps. Lots of people go up there to take, but not many give anything back. I see it like visiting a friend - it's rude to arrive empty-handed

[Adam]

Oct 3, 2008 14:36:03 GMT -1 redraven said:

Yours is not an unusual experience, Adam, there are tales of individuals who thought it was a good idea to camp out there. Most don't get past midnight!
Arbor Low definately has it's own energy and guardians, and they do not welcome everyone. I did not feel any negativity there and haven't for each time I have visited, so maybe I am acceptable to them. (He says trying to avoid any ego massaging here.)
My intent with this thread and subsequent threads was to show that if an ordinary bloke like me can experience these things with no special "attributes" or claim to special treatment from the Gods/spirits, then, with a little application, we can all experience and share, in the hope of external verification through shared experiences or confirmation through the latest scientific research and thus create a base from which to develop our spirituality/religion. Thus, we have the foundations built upon experience that can be verified externally and this gives us the tools to evolve and puts us in a strong position to be able to defend ourselves when the inevitable questioning from other religions start.

RR

That's pretty much what I thought... I thought it potentially useful to post my experience since it appeared to give credence to the idea of SPG in this context... the entire family felt it (my wife has a strong "sense of place" and she doesn't bring it up unless she's serious... she is a strong sceptic with a dual awareness that "There are more things in heaven and earth..." she is my best grounding... more so since studying law ;D) and we all interacted markedley out of character... we were not going to get up to the Low... it is interesting that others have experienced some form of negativity (I would go as far as to say malevolence)

I was/am interested in the strength of the experience and it validates for me an area of perception that is way outside fluffy :-)

Oct 3, 2008 14:40:13 GMT -1 Blackbird said:

I've found there are some places in which I definitely have not felt welcome - the nearby Nine Ladies being one of them.

It may be an ancestral thing, or it may simply be that the spirits of the place are in a narky mood. There are certainly plenty of spirits up there - those of the big barrow at the far side of Arbor Low and the two barrows of Gib Hill for a start.

I would go back with an offering, such as a bottle of mead or ale... see if that helps. Lots of people go up there to take, but not many give anything back. I see it like visiting a friend - it's rude to arrive empty-handed

Thanks Blackbird... I will try that next time... it may have been that the spirit of the place objected to megalithic tourism, though I believe I approach each spot with reverence

[Tegernacus]

good maps of the henge here:

www.mikeoates.org/mas/leek/sunset.htm

(they are tiny, you have to click to get the larger ones).

apparently both midwinter sunset and moonset are aligned with the entrance (although given axis shift not so much anymore).

[redraven]

Oct 3, 2008 19:31:08 GMT -1 Adam said:

That's pretty much what I thought... I thought it potentially useful to post my experience since it appeared to give credence to the idea of SPG in this context... the entire family felt it (my wife has a strong "sense of place" and she doesn't bring it up unless she's serious... she is a strong sceptic with a dual awareness that "There are more things in heaven and earth..." she is my best grounding... more so since studying law ;D) and we all interacted markedley out of character... we were not going to get up to the Low... it is interesting that others have experienced some form of negativity (I would go as far as to say malevolence)

I was/am interested in the strength of the experience and it validates for me an area of perception that is way outside fluffy :-)

This is exactly what I was hoping for, thanks. Two experiences shared that can start to build up a "database" of UPG that can be examined and, if appropriate, strongly suggest the move into SPG.
I still think it is important that we actually get out there into these places and make direct contact, preferably at different times and it would be good to be brave enough to share these experiences with each other. The more doing it, the wider the experiences, and the stronger basis for SPG and the strength of position that offers.

RR

[Tegernacus]

everytime I see Arbor Low I get flashes of people running around it really fast. Like a racetrack, only lots of people. Bizarre I know. Going to have to stop being such a southern softie and get up there one day.

[Adam]

Oct 3, 2008 19:31:08 GMT -1 Adam said:

Thanks Blackbird... I will try that next time... it may have been that the spirit of the place objected to megalithic tourism, though I believe I approach each spot with reverence

<rhetorical>
I didn't though, did I...
</rhetorical>